Pen- Identification: Who Can Tell Me Which Brand These Pens Are ?

[dutch-courage]

Hello everyone !

 

Last week I bought this set of 2 lady fountain pens.

 

The quality of these hooded pistonfillers is quite good, and so

it is a big mistery to me that no brandname can be found

anywhere.

 

Both pens had their pistons stuck, but a good soak and a

swab of sillygone grease worked wonders.

 

On the first 3 pics you can see one of the pens without the hood,

On pic 4 you see both pens hooded and uncapped

(the pen on the left is inked) and on the 5th pic you can see both pens capped.

 

 

So anyone who recognise these or has a hunch about their origin, please feel

free to speak out.

Thanks,

Peter

 

[dutch-courage]

Here is also a close-up of one of the nibs:

[Mr.Rene]

it seems to be a vintage german brand...not sure what...

[dutch-courage]

it seems to be a vintage german brand...not sure what...

Thank you Mr.Rene.

Maybe our german forum co-members can shine their light on these pens.

[jar]

The nibs are from Degussa but Degussa made nibs that were then put in many pens.

[dutch-courage]

The nibs are from Degussa but Degussa made nibs that were then put in many pens.

Thanks jar !

These are the original nibs - not replacements.

Did Degussa also make fountainpens, or only nibs ?

[jar]

Thanks jar !

These are the original nibs - not replacements.

Did Degussa also make fountainpens, or only nibs ?

Yes but Degussa and for a short period owned Osima but at the time there were lots of German and Italian companies using Degussa nibs and your pens look more like some Fends I've come across than the Osima/Adler or Degussa pens.

[Dickkooty2]

Looking at the Degussa nib uncovered, the wonderful celluloid, and the clip remind me of this post:

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/305517-identification-help-on-a-beautiful-vintage-no-name-pen-with-georg-peter-rupp-nib/?p=3584034

 

However, the key id is the double diagonal stripe rather than clear in the indicator.

 

Well, a hunch is a hunch ...

[dutch-courage]

Looking at the Degussa nib uncovered, the wonderful celluloid, and the clip remind me of this post:

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/305517-identification-help-on-a-beautiful-vintage-no-name-pen-with-georg-peter-rupp-nib/?p=3584034

 

However, the key id is the double diagonal stripe rather than clear in the indicator.

 

The clip is different too.

 

Well, a hunch is a hunch ...

 

That's right,

Thanks Dickkooty !

[Bo Bo Olson]

Osmia always had trouble with money in they made pens only. Soennecken, MB and Pelikan owned office supply companies.....Soennecken still does (as does Geha...which had it pen division bought up in 1990 by the Malaysian billionaire and shut down in it competed with the Pelikano...by that time 'only;.) but by getting into brand new ball point market lost market share they never made up. Soennecken made the best pens ever made .... in the '50's better than MB 146-9 and the Snorkel...according to Lambrau.

@ 1928-9 Parker bought up Osmia...Osmia got a 'free' technology transfer. Parker sold Osmia back to the Boehler brothers who had owned it, in the Great Depression was on, and no one was buying the over expensive Parker pens that held no more ink than the German normal companies using rubber sack technology, and Germany having so many, many pen companies; many had been making Parker Clones....like China today. So Lamy was in charge of the Osmia take over.

 

1932 Degussa bought up Osmia's nib factory. None of the trained workers would move 40-50 miles to Pfortzheim. So the factory remained in Heidelberg. Lamy went off and started his own pen company.

Osmium was invented by a Heidelberg Professor who sold the process to Osmia in 1922. Up until tipping was perfected in WW2. It had been one of the best tippings.

Osmia and later Osmia-Faber-Castell continued to use Degussa nibs. Rupp was another '20's Heidelberg nib maker.....I don't know but suspect Herlitz and Luxor made their own nibs....but could have had nibs made to there stamping by Degussa like Bock does today for many big pen companies. Their requirements.

Osmia/Degussa steel and gold nibs are great.

I have a number of Degussa nibs that are superflex....Easy Full Flex, not Wet Noodles.

 

Mulschner (sp) was also a Heidelberg company...that like Wearever made second tier pens, some I think were Ero's. (Eventually Mulschner bought up Reform a couple of years after he shut down rather than make second class pens to survive....Mulschner made the cheap Reform pens like the 1745.)

I have some that look similar to yours with Clipper marked on them...so was '50's, with the little plane with three tails on the nib. Marked Clipper on the cap, in gold lettering. The 'Clipper' was the other name for the Super Constellation, one of the great prop passenger planes. It was Ike's Air Force One.

My cap jewel is a bit pointer and my clip is with only two lines in it. My cap ring is on the mouth but the stripping is very similar....I have one in a darker blue, and one close to your Rose one, but neither with out the dark 'marblely spots; that copy the Vac look.

 

 

Like when the '30's Shaefer's New Balance came in, every one copied it some....like MB after the War 146-9. The P-51 brought in many, many copies of the hooded nib...even ones made in Italy...and for many years there. East Germans also made some; not with Degussa nibs of course.

 

Deguassa and Rupp stopped makeing nibs in 1970. Bock that started in 1938/9 is still making nibs just out side of Heidelberg.

Heidelberg may have been the Pen Capitol of Germany....There were some 5 major companies and some smaller ones here. 6 if you count Mulscher(sp). Mercedes was also a Heidelberg company. Some engineer from MB started that company. Osmia was bought up by Faber Castel (pencil empire) that made second tier pens in they needed a Name pen....then the idiots started erasing Osmia from their pens.Osmia, Herlitz, Luxor, Reform **,Lamy and a few others were here.

 

**Reform made a very well made solid pen(surprised me how solid a War pen they made the first time I had one in my hand)....I have a couple of War pens made by them. Right after the war, the companies they exported too, sent cash in advance so Reform could buy supplies...that's how good the real Original Reform pens were.

 

My Clipper semi-flex nibs....more than likely Heidelberg nibs....Bock, Rupp or Degussa made semi-flex; also.

 

Seeing it's hooded....I'd not expect your nib to be semi-flex...but it could be.

[dutch-courage]

 

 

 

Seeing it's hooded....I'd not expect your nib to be semi-flex...but it could be.

 

Hi Bo Bo,

The nibs on these 2 pens aren't flexie.

One of them has spme spring but the other is more like a Sheaffer nib.

Thanks for you info .

[Bo Bo Olson]

Semi-flex is no where near "Flexi" which is a term often misused to mean superflex.

 

First, find a true regular flex***....early '90's and before. In what is now made is often semi-nail. A Nail, has almost no flex at all even for weight lifters, semi-nail can be 'mashed' to 2 X, a light down stroke.

 

**I'm not up on 'modern' pens much, a post '97 400/600( with the ring at the piston cap) Pelikan is semi-nail, a Pelikan 200/215 is a 'true' regular flex. ' 97 and before is 'true' regular flex. The '50-65's are in many of the German pens that have a touch of flex, semi or maxi-semi-flex.

Best buy is a Geha 790 be it steel or gold, just as good for semi or maxi....it will be a gamble in that is not marked. I have a '50's-65' 400 & 400n that are semi-flex, a 400NN and 500 that are maxi-semi-flex. Three of my four Geha 790's are semi-flex, one is a maxi-semi-flex. Of my three '50's MB's one is semi-flex, one between semi & maxi and one maxi. My '70-80's 146 is true regular flex, my modern MB Woolf is the 'common' MB springy.

 

This is my system that I finds works, under the super flex level well and is good enough for government work in the Superflex if one is not too AR. There is more variance of pressure levels in Superflex to those who have many, but works more or less in superflex also.

 

A 'Springy' nib like a modern MB or Japanese Falcon, has more tine bend than tine spread. From my limited experience with 'Springy' nibs, there is nice tine bend...not quite up to semi-flex level with @ only a 2 X tine spread. I only have a modern MB in that. My other MB's are mostly '50's in they have 'better' nibs.

 

I have some 25 semi-flex and some 15 maxi-semi-flex nibbed pens. I found that after 3 months of using my Pelikan 140...a sure semi-flex (If not a H or D nib), my Hand grew lighter naturally, so when I got lucky with my first maxi-semi-flex my Hand was light enough for it...with out putting stress on it.

 

Mash a 'true' regular flex nib to the max of regular, semi&maxi-semi-flex...a "flex set", of 3X a light down stroke. (This nib set has a max of @ 3 X with out springing the nib.)

Semi-flex takes half of that pressure to reach 3X. Most of my semi-flex clump in a middle of the flex set.

Maxi-semi-flex half of that or 1/4th the pressure needed to mash a 'true' regular flex. There is flex variation with in this set. When I was 'noobie' and a bit OCD, I had run into my first maxi-semi-flex a Rupp nib that was WoW!

Being a bit OCD, as soon as I had 5 of the maxi-semi-flex, I tried to categorize. It's not worth the effort, in everything is subjunctive, including how hard you press.

I had two that were F-1, two that were F- 1 14th and that Rupp nib that was F-1 1/2, but still far away from a Superflex of the Easy Full Flex catagory. That would have been a F-2 had I continued that foolishness. F-3 was supposed to be Superflex, the Wet Noodle I have only two and am not interested in getting more...too much work to learn to really use them....and after that would be what John Swabota named Weak Kneed Wet Noodles.

 

Mauricio is the one to read about Superflex nibs...it's his expertise which has much to do with setting the nib and feed perfectly. He says Superflex is more complicated than my simplistic view of them.

There is another fella that don't like any of my definitions at all. He don't like my looking down my nose at nails either.

That's ok.

I Do Not look down my nose at 'true' regular flex.

 

I think my system is close enough for horseshoes or hand grenades as subjunctive as it is. It works for me.

Trying an electronic scale has been discussed and 'discarded' by many. A Bit to OCD IMO. Depends on how heavy your Hand is.

 

Now on to Superflex. The tine spread in Superflex are, 4, 5, 6 or even rarely 7 X a light down stroke....and I mean a real light down stroke. I have a Waterman 52 that if I really concentrate, I can get XXF; getting to BBB is easier...but not recommended in always maxing a nib will cause it to spring. Being still a bit 'heavy' handed I find I write to an F mostly.

There is a great article by Richard Binder on how to spring your nib.

I divide Superflex into three flex ranges.

Easy Full Flex, half as much pressure as needed for a maxi-semi-flex, or 1/8th the pressure needed to mash a 'true' regular flex.

Wet Noodle needs 'half' of that or 1/16th needed to mash a 'true' regular flex.

A Weak Kneed Wet Noodle less than that. I don't have any of these......except in Dip pen nibs.

 

There they have nibs that are so flexible that they make a Wet Noodle look uncooked.

 

As I said, there is a much greater flex range in Superflex. When I tried my 52, initially I was a tad disappointed. It was 'only' Easy Full Flex.....then half way through testing that nib, it turned Wet Noodle. I started understanding Mauricuo much better. I got the pen from him.

 

It's a simple system of 1/2's, and works well for them who work their way up the flex ladder. For them that jump from nail to Wet Noodle....no system will work. With experience one has an idea what a nib feels like when tested. I had a handful of Degussa 'Easy Full Flex' nibs that can go 6X, when I tested my Pelikan 100n, I felt pressure at 5 X, so I never take that over a 4X. I don't want to spring the nib. I don't want anyone to spring a nib. Period.

 

There are newer members, who coming from nail/semi-nail that the first time they run into a normal springy 'true' regular flex, think they are Semi-flex.

 

I do try to prevent those with a jump to semi-flex from thinking they are Superflex and can be made to do Olympic Splits.

 

Because of ease of tine spread in Semi-flex and maxi-semi-flex they are wetter writers. There are shading inks that work better with 'true' regular flex than with semi/maxi, in they are drier writers.

And there is absolutely nothing wrong with a M nib either....once you have a few F's and B's. I don't like EF nibs much in they don't shade as well as wider nibs. I do like shading inks.

Paper....for shading inks should be on the whole 90g....Rhoda at 80 will do because of the coating, and Tomara(sp) the 70g Japanese papers are exceptions to that rule.

Do not use ink jet paper....it swallows shading in it swallows the ink too fast and is prone to feathering.

Laser paper is best for shading.

[dutch-courage]

 

 

Hi Bo Bo !

I'm a newby - collecting for half a year and a member of these forums for 2 weeks, but I have found I like old Pelikans and flexi nibs ( found me a Swan SF1 with a Swan 1 nib ) , though I haven't run into a weak kneed wet noodle as of yet.

I looked up Richard Binder and Mauricio aguilar on the web and bookmarked them so I will read up on them later.

Thanks for the info.

Best,

Peter

[dutch-courage]

I see a little resemblance in architecture between my hooded twin-sisters and

the Pelikan P1 Silvexa .

As a coincidence the shopkeeper also sold me a Pelikan 100 together with these

hooded twins.

IMG_8569. klein.jpg

IMG_8560 klein.jpg

IMG_8561 klein.jpg

IMG_8579 klein.jpg

IMG_8581 klein.jpg

 

 

Edited June 20, 2016 by dutch-courage