Surface Tension Problem

[uemuraw]

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(I'm a bit wary of syringes -not only in the medical sense- because I'm very clumsy, and I dread adding another step to the filling process; as it is now, my hands get stained every time I fell the pen).

Syringes are good for keeping hands clean, and for getting every drop of precious ink out of a bottle. I really think you'll like them once you try. And with as much as you have done to get to the bottom of this, I think you have the moxy to give it a shot.

 

On the converter, I would be interested to hear whether putting that converter in a different pen would replicate the surface tension issue in that other pen.

 

You've been a good sport, and I've enjoyed the thread. I talked to my boys about how this is a fine example of using literally global collaboration to sleuth and solve problems.

 

Give the syringe a try. Very useful. I use them to fill some pens, to get ink from bottles to low to get a good fill, and to flush pens before changing colors.

[Cassotto]

I talked to my boys about how this is a fine example of using literally global collaboration to sleuth and solve problems.

 

I think this is the best part of it (of course, it would have been much better had it worked!). People from everywhere have done their best to help, they have contributed their expertise, and, apart from being heart-warming, it will surely help many other people who come looking for a solution for the same problem.

 

 

Latest update: I've got a second converter much earlier than I expected. This morning I've heard that my sister was coming home for the weekend, so I've asked her to go and buy an international converter for me. I haven't mentioned any brand, but when I've seen what she's brought, it was another Waterman converter exactly like the one I already had. I've flushed it with the 90% water + 10% ammonia + one drop of detergent solution, and when dry I've filled it with ink and... Just the same. The ink is all sort of clotted at the end of the converter.

 

I really cannot understand it. Obviously, it's not a design flaw, or at least not one common enough to affect many converters, or Waterman would have been flooded with complaints; besides, people in this forum have said that they've never had a problem with their Watermans.

 

I'm certainly going to try once more, whenever I can buy an international converter of any other brand. I'll try that, and afterwards... Well, I don't know, but I wouldn't be surprised if I give up!

 

 

On the converter, I would be interested to hear whether putting that converter in a different pen would replicate the surface tension issue in that other pen.

 

Interesting idea. I'll check what happens. I've only got one more pen that uses international cartridges or converters, a Jinhao 500... Coincidentally, the only other pen with which I have this surface tension problem (this time with its original Jinhao converter).

 

Clearly, standard piston converters and I don't get along well!

 

 

 

Syringes are good for keeping hands clean, and for getting every drop of precious ink out of a bottle. I really think you'll like them once you try. And with as much as you have done to get to the bottom of this, I think you have the moxy to give it a shot.

 

(...)

Give the syringe a try. Very useful. I use them to fill some pens, to get ink from bottles to low to get a good fill, and to flush pens before changing colors.

 

I will. If only because of what's in bold type, I will .

Edited May 20, 2016 by Cassotto

[Cassotto]

As for converters, this happens to many of my converters, of various brands. (...)

 

This phenomenon is not limited to converters. I have 2 pens which also get the ink stuck in the back end of the pen. (...)

 

Are these large numbers compared to the size of your pen collection? I'm getting more and more worried about this issue. One usually likes and expects new things to work!

[John UK]

Update on mine; I have ordered a different type of converter (still made/sold by Kaweco but a piston rather then squeezable sac). The sac was filled on Monday - and needed 'coaxing' several times on Monday as the collector/feed ran dry from writing, but by today - as it is now only about 1/3 full - has been fine.

The nuisance - and that is assuming it works - is that the piston converters hold (even) less ink than the sac.

Further update:

The piston converter has arrived; initial impressions are good. I have flushed - filled - and today all has worked 100% satisfactorily. Perhaps I have found the solution? It does hold only perhaps 60-70% of the ink though.

[Cassotto]

I also have news. And bad news.

 

I've already despaired of making my Waterman Kultur work with a converter. So now it's fitted with the only long cartridge I had; if I'm going to start using a syringe to fill the cartridge, at least let it be a long one. It'll take some time, but when the ink has run out I'll fill it with ink from a bottle. As for the other pen with the same problem, the Jinhao 500 with its Jinhao converter, I'll probably end up doing the same.

 

The bad news is that I got a Parker IM as a present last week (well, this is GOOD news), and that the Parker converter shows the surface tension issues I've got to know so well. This converter is exactly like those in my three Parker Vector pens, which are all right.

 

It has to be some sort of allergy I have to converters. I can see no other explanation!

Edited May 25, 2016 by Cassotto

[ac12]

No, this is a very common problem with many converters.

I have a Sheaffer pen, with a Sheaffer converter, loaded with Sheaffer ink, and I get this problem.

This happens enough that, as a standard practice, I will put an agitator into any converter I get.

 

The only solution that I have found that works is to put an agitator into the converter.

The weight of the agitator will cause it to fall through the ink, breaking the surface tension, and causing the ink to flow to the front of the converter.

I use a stainless steel bearing ball.

Some of the Chinese converters have a plastic ball in them. The problem is that the plastic ball does not have enough mass to fall through the ink to break the surface tension, and gets stuck in the back of the converter with the ink.

 

But it is not a universal solution. Here are the problems I've run into.

- Some converters do not open, or at least I have not figured out how to open the converter.

- - These are: Sheaffer and Parker screw piston, so far.

 

- The agitator that you put in is not 'universal.'

- - I started with a stainless steel ball. The SS ball is my first choice, if I can get the converter open. But on some converters (Lamy Z24, the one with the red knob) the ball will plug the outlet of converter.

 

- - I tried a section of brass tube. The problem is, you need to match the diameter of the tube to the converter and piston seal. Too small and short and the tube will flip on you and could get stuck in the converter. Too small and the tube can get stuck on the piston seal of some converters (Lamy Z24).

 

So for pens taking the international converter, I am good, because I can open those converters and put in the stainless steel ball.

For Sheaffer and Parker screw piston converters, which I cannot open, I'm still looking for a solution.

Edited May 25, 2016 by ac12

[Cassotto]

So an 'agitator' is anything that weighs enough to fall through the ink, big enough not to fall out through the outlet of the converter and small enough not to block it or get stuck half way in the converter. Have I got it right?

 

Where do you buy such balls? In fountain pen shops? In an ironmonger's? Would pellets do?

 

Do you know whether a Waterman converter like that shown in post #38 can be disassembled? I've tried, but I haven't been able to do so. Unluckily, my latest acquisition in the problem section is a Parker .

[ac12]

 

So an 'agitator' is anything that weighs enough to fall through the ink, big enough not to fall out through the outlet of the converter and small enough not to block it or get stuck half way in the converter. Have I got it right?

 

YES

 

 

 

Where do you buy such balls? In fountain pen shops? In an ironmonger's? Would pellets do?

 

I bought my stainless steel balls from an eBay seller.

This is what I bought and use

http://www.ebay.com/itm/100-5-32-302-stainless-steel-bearing-balls-/310397766235?hash=item4845260a5b:g:CwQAAOSwyjBW2jKn

 

You want STAINLESS STEEL, so that the ball does not corrode and contaminate the ink with its corrosion. There may be other metals that would be OK, but stainless is simpler.

 

 

 

Do you know whether a Waterman converter like that shown in post #38 can be disassembled? I've tried, but I haven't been able to do so. Unluckily, my latest acquisition in the problem section is a Parker .

 

Grab the plastic cylinder of the converter with a rubber sheet (to hold onto the plastic better than your bare fingers), and the metal collar of the converter with another piece of rubber (or a plier gripping the knurled part of the collar), and try to unscrew the metal collar.

All you can to is to try. Some of the collars (Sheaffer and Parker) appear to be glued/cemented on, and have resisted my attempts at unscrewing them.

Do NOT use a plier on the plastic cylinder, as you could easily crush the plastic.

 

BTW for a rubber sheet, I use a small piece of bicycle inner tube that I got for free from a bicycle repair shop.

 

 

  Edited May 26, 2016 by ac12

[Cassotto]

I bought my stainless steel balls from an eBay seller.

This is what I bought and use

http://www.ebay.com/...wQAAOSwyjBW2jKn

 

You want STAINLESS STEEL, so that the ball does not corrode and contaminate the ink with its corrosion. There may be other metals that would be OK, but stainless is simpler.

 

Thanks! I see those balls have a diameter of around 4 mm. I think I'll buy myself some balls with a 4.5-mm diameter (I don't find smaller balls on eBay Spain, and shipping from your seller makes the balls too expensive). I hope they're all right.

 

Anyway, I no longer have Waterman converters to put the balls into. I've tried to unscrew them with rubber gloves of the type you use to do the dishes. On breaking the first converter I've thought that perhaps I hadn't done it correctly. On breaking the second I've started to suspect they were glued. They've broken where the plastic tube joins the metal ring. The plastic has cracked.

[John UK]

Further update:

The piston converter has arrived; initial impressions are good. I have flushed - filled - and today all has worked 100% satisfactorily. Perhaps I have found the solution? It does hold only perhaps 60-70% of the ink though.

Another further update: All is well - and I have not had to 'prompt' the piston based converter (which I regularly had to do with the sac based converter) at all. The limited ink capacity has not been a real problem either because the pen concerned (Kaweco Sport, brass, medium nib) is a dry writer on most papers. Quite why the piston type is better - I can't explain because if anything the ink tends to show more 'surface tension' issues in the (narrower) piston converter than the sac converter. The issue always seems to have been getting the ink to go from the converter to the feed - and I don't see any logical reason why the piston is better at this. Might simply be a materials surface finish issue?

[Bill Wood]

A good agitator is a seed bead. Go to a bead shop or sewing shop and take a look at the plastic seed beads. All are available in different sizes. Not too heavy, and not too lite. Just enough for agitation.

[Rach31]

I remember reading that the Waterman Kultur could be made into an eyedropper- no cartridge or converter, ink fills the barrel. (The only thing is that you don't want to only put a little bit of ink in an ED because it can allow ink to push out. If you wanted to fill the pen with ink it might be a way around the converter issues.) just a thought.

 

I found this thread interesting to read and loved that it was used to explain global collaboration to a member's sons.

[Cassotto]

Not really related to how to solve the problem of surface tension, but I thought I'd tell you one good piece of news: I've bought a new Faber-Castell converter to replace the one that came with the Jinhao 500, and it works perfectly. Now I've only got one pen whose converter doesn't work (the Parker IM) and one converterless pen (the Waterman Kultur) which I had decided to start using with cartridges filled with a syringe... But that I might try with another Faber-Castell converter instead.

[John UK]

I have a Faber Castell E-motion pure black (lovely pen incidentally) and use the F-C converter with no problems whatsoever.

 

J

[jhataway]

My experience is that cartridges are less of a problem re surface tension than converters. I think the reason may be that cartridges are made from a non-polar polymer such as polyethylene, whereas converters are likely made from a polar polymer such as polyester or polycarbonate. One drop of a good surfactant into a bottle of ink will minimize the problem (I use Merpol_A). I usually use cartridges refilled with a syringe.

 

Jim

[pajaro]

Interesting thread. My first converter pen was a Montblanc 144. Always worked perfectly. Later I bought another MB 144. Its converter has a spring in it, where the first pen's had nothing. Both work perfectly. Every other C/C pen I have had has had some ink flow issue: drying out prematurely or poor flow. My solution is to stop using all this carpola and use my MB 144s, Parker 51s and a couple of other pens that work when I want to write without hassles. Watermans, modern Parkers and the rest of the modern pens I use when I am in the mood to mess with stuff knowing that success will be elusive, temporary and/or illusory. Struggle on with those pens.

 

I don't see the point any more of trying to write with pens other than my Parker 51s or Montblanc 144s. I don't need the hassle.

[Dillo]

Hi,

 

The Waterman converters open by unscrewing the metal ferrule on the converter around the piston knob. Parker, Waterman, and Rotring converters have a type of sealant that keeps that part from unscrewing, so you would have to use some dry heat applied to that area to break the bond of the glue. When you do get it open, make sure you use ball bearings that are made from stainless steel (highly corrosion resistant stainless steel) or another corrosion resistant metal such as gold or titanium. Ink exposure can cause metals to corrode quite quickly, so that is a must. Since the Waterman converters are so slim, you may need smaller ball bearings. Another option of course is to use really small ball bearings that fit through the mouth of the converter. I'd put three or four in there. Just take care when you take the converter out that you recover the ball bearings and that they don't escape.

 

Be careful with adding detergents directly to ink because they can sometimes cause growth of other organisms in the ink either by damaging the biocide action and/or giving the organisms something to eat. I'd soak the parts in a surfactant, then give them a rinse and let them dry if I were going that route. My best result have been making a powdered laundry detergent solution because that is almost entirely surfactants. My sister who works in a biological lab corroborates my observation that regular dish detergents in solution can indeed foster the growth of organisms. I discovered it in pens and ink. She found out in a different way.

 

Dillon

Edited June 4, 2016 by Dillo

[IrishEyes]

A good agitator is a seed bead. Go to a bead shop or sewing shop and take a look at the plastic seed beads. All are available in different sizes. Not too heavy, and not too lite. Just enough for agitation.

 

Plastic seed beads? Are you sure? I have literally hundreds of different colors of them, because I do bead work jewelry, and all of mine are glass or stone. Which wouldn't tend to float or be too light, I'd think.

 

You can get glass and stone seed beads (and they come in several different sizes from 15 [smallest--so small that I need to use a magnifier and tweezers to work with them] to 8 [largest, and WAY too large for your intended use] ) all over the place. Walmart, Craft Warehouse, Joann's, Target, etc. I don't know if the OP has any of those stores where he lives, but basically any large "we sell everything" store or any craft store should sell them. They're almost always sold by weight, and are very inexpensive.

Edited June 7, 2016 by IrishEyes

[Dillo]

Plastic seed beads? Are you sure? I have literally hundreds of different colors of them, because I do bead work jewelry, and all of mine are glass or stone. Which wouldn't tend to float or be too light, I'd think.

 

You can get glass and stone seed beads (and they come in several different sizes from 15 [smallest--so small that I need to use a magnifier and tweezers to work with them] to 8 [largest, and WAY too large for your intended use] ) all over the place. Walmart, Craft Warehouse, Joann's, Target, etc. I don't know if the OP has any of those stores where he lives, but basically any large "we sell everything" store or any craft store should sell them. They're almost always sold by weight, and are very inexpensive.

I have tons of those in different sizes, and I've tried them, but they don't seem to work very well for me. Sometimes they just get stuck with the ink.

 

Dillon

[ac12]

The 'agitator' that you put into the converter has to have enough MASS/weight to allow it to fall through the ink stuck at the back of the converter, and break the surface tension. Not enough mass and it will be stuck in the ink. That is why I use a stainless steel ball.

Edited June 7, 2016 by ac12