445 Dip-Less Restoration, Hints Welcome

[AAAndrew]

I got my first Dip-less in today. It's a 445, a chained 444. The top is glued to the glass well with old ink. I think I'm also going to replace the chain as it's a bit green in places.

 

I'm assuming I can just soak the glass and lid in water until the lid is loose enough to pop free. Correct? How much pressure should it take to get the top off? I took a coin and tried to gently work it 'round the edge and pry the top off, but it was not budging. I'll try soaking and hopefully that will answer the question.

 

I think I can see how to loosen the chain from the pen, but I can't see where it connects under the lid. I guess I'll figure that out once it's off.

 

The nib's a 9461 and looks like it should unscrew once I soak it for a year or two. (really gunked up).

 

I know the 407's need a new gasket and what kind to look for, but do the 444's? Do they have a seal?

 

I've seen the post by Enai on cleaning the tiny rods, so I think once I get the top off I may be ok on the basics, but if there are any suggestions for the rest of it, I'm all ears.

 

My 407 should come next week. That will be another kettle of fish. And I still need a pen for that one. Anyone have a spare?

[AAAndrew]

I have the top off and the little rods are soaking. (Thank you Enai, wherever you are!)

 

I have the glass cleaned out and the rubber gasket off the top. I'm soaking the top in just water and I'll use a toothbrush in the morning.

I've seen a couple of thing that say the gasket is a certain size, but then that is also the size I see for the 407. The threads that keep getting linked to confuse the red "fill to this line" plastic ring with the red gasket in the 407, but I'm looking for the rubber gasket on the top of the 444/445. Pendemonium now only lists the size of the 407 gasket, but not the 444.

Are they the same size? I guess I can take the old one with me and see if I can find a match. Any of you experts know the right size before I go?

 

And I think I've figured out how the chain gets attached. That will be the next thing to work on once I find a gasket that fits.

Thanks.

Edited April 9, 2016 by AAAndrew

[ac12]

Glad you got the top off, without damage. Lucky you that it was fountain pen ink. I had one that they must have used india ink in it. It was a PiA to get the top off and remove the hardened ink from the inside. I had to use 50/50 ammonia solution in an USC.

 

Once you get it cleaned, I would put a 'thin' coat of silicone grease around the inside edge where the gasket slides. This should keep the gasket from sticking in the future.

 

I did not try to replace the gasket in mine, so can't help you with that.

Edited April 9, 2016 by ac12

[AAAndrew]

You saying to put some silicon grease around the inside of the glass where the gasket slides?

 

I also was wondering if anyone has used anything like walnut ink in a dip-less? I would never use it in a fountain pen because of the particulate matter but since this is not flowing through tiny holes, and the ink is very easy to dissolve with water (as opposed to, say, India ink) I'm wondering if it might work. It's also much cheaper than fountain pen ink, which is its primary charm. Just a thought.

 

I'm going to look for a gasket. If I don't find one I may just Roy and use the old one but turned upside down. It still has a little pliability, but is stiffer than I'd like.

[AAAndrew]

Well, I got it all cleaned and went to put the rubber gasket back and it was just too dry. I ended up getting one of the gaskets recommended for the 407 and trimming the outer diameter. It seems to work well, so far. I've put some Lamy Blue ink in that I'm rather ambivalent to, but it's pretty gentle and easy to clean, and if I have to dump it I won't be that upset.

 

The red plastic ring that shows the fill level doesn't actually rest on anything that I can find, and so one side was lower than the other. I could soft of find a ridge in the glass on one side, so I'm assuming that's where it's supposed to me, but the side without a clear ridge is what's sinking lower. I ended up with 20ml of ink in it. We'll see how that works.

 

And I was able to replace the chain. It was easier than I feared. Just unscrew the tail on the pen and you can push out a bell-shaped end cap for the chain into the body of the pen. Same with the top. It took a while for me to get enough crusted ink off the bottom of the cap to see what was going on, but it turned out to be straightforward from there.

 

Right now it's (hopefully) soaking up the ink into the rods and the nib. I'll give it some time and see what happens.

 

And for anyone who may come upon this when looking for restoring a 444. Here are a few key links

 

For cleaning the feeder rods

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/171590-how-i-clean-the-feed-of-an-esterbrook-444-inkwell/

 

For replacing missing feeder rods

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/205228-esterbrook-base-replacement-feeder-rods/

 

Here's one of several threads that have the dimensions for the 407 gasket. You can use this for the 444 or 445, but you do need to trim the outer diameter a couple or three millimeters. I crept up on it by cutting off about 1.5 mm and tried to put the top down. Cut a little more, tried, found the couple of sides which were still too long, trimmed carefully and not it fits quite well.

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/15292-upper-seal-gasket-for-esterbrook-444-desk-set/

 

These are actually pretty easy to clean. Soaking in plain water had no affect on the bakelite, as I would expect. I didn't try anything but water and a soft toothbrush and a paper towel. Seemed to work well. I can only imagine, though, if I had tried to clean the feeder rods by just soaking the whole thing. Would have taken twice as long.