Pointed Pen Comparison

[AAAndrew]

I was waiting around for my son to finish an activity Tuesday evening and had my portable writing kit with me, so I pulled out a bunch of nibs that fit within the "flexible" category in a general sense. (the term can mean so many things, and encompass a wide range of flexibility, but I'm not getting into that religious war here)

 

I wrote a brief line for each and had a great deal of fun doing it. I have some other nibs that are at least as flexible, but didn't have any on me (such as 303's, or the Leon Isaacs 27). Not meant to be comprehensive, just indicative of what kinds of nibs are out there.

 

It was interesting writing with each one in immediate proximity to the others. It really pointed out some subtle differences in action from one to the other. I use the term "action" in the sense that it was used last century to talk about nibs: a kind of combination of flex and spring and stiffness. You can have a nib that springs back beautifully but doesn't flex very far. You can also have a nib that spreads far and wide but is still soft, like the Palmer 8. If you just judge by the width of line it doesn't really tell you much about what it's like to write with the nib.

 

A few things are obvious right off the bat:

1. My writing is NOT calligraphy.

2. It is definitely harder to have control with some nibs than with others

3. The Palmer nibs tend toward soft action and the Turner & Harrison are definitely on the stiffer side.

4. Nib size generally does not determine either flexibility, or action.

5. Some nibs trade spring and hairlines for smoothness, like the Eagle and Esterbrooks

6. The Spencerian 1 is really nothing that special. I found the Zanerian 3 and the Wm Mitchell "G" would either make a much better pen for Spencerian writing, in my very ill-informed opinion.

7. There are a lot of options out there for vintage nibs that will work quite well for pointed pen calligraphy. "Dream Nibs" are not the only possibilities.

7. Writing is fun even if I'm not terribly good at it.

 

 

Enjoy!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[bobje]

Andrew, this is a comprehensive piece of work for a Tuesday evening experiment. What ink were you using?

[AAAndrew]

Thanks! Walnut ink.

[bobje]

Have you found any regular fountain pen nibs that even come close?

[AAAndrew]

I only have three nibs that sort of would be considered close to flexible. I have a Pilot Falcon (formerly the Namiki Falcon). If it were a dip pen I would consider it a firm nib. Not a manifold, which is a nail, but "firm."

 

I also have a Conklin and an unmarked vest pen from the 20's. (It's encased in gold-fill and has no markings). Both have pretty equivalent soft nibs that I would consider a firm-flex to the firm side of a semi-flex. But neither can get the fine hairlines of the Pilot, let alone of a really good dip nib.

 

I don't have any of the top end vintage flex fountain pens. I was interested in them, which led me to the dip nibs, and once I went dip, I lost interest in paying $200 for an ok fountain pen. For that much I could buy several gross of really good dip nibs that would last me a long time with less risk of springing a nib.

 

Frankly, I can't imagine a fountain pen nib that comes anywhere near what you can get from even the Zanerian 3, let alone something like a vintage Gillott 303, 292 or a Gillott Principality. As I mentioned in the original post, "action" is much more than how wide apart the tines spread. I would be very surprised to find a gold nib with the spring of a fine Birmingham steel nib. (whether made in Birmingham or the US)

 

But, maybe one day I'll get to try a top quality vintage flex nib that makes me change my mind. That I would like to try. But until then, it's dip nibs for me.

 

I'd actually like to get more people interested in them. I'm selling in the classifieds a dip nib intro kit with a couple of different variety packs of nibs for different purposes. I don't make much off of them, but if it helps spread the word, then I've done a good thing.

[Cryptos]

It's interesting that you are not especially keen on the Spencerian #1. I bought one a couple of months back for the exorbitant fee of $10 and was similarly underwhelmed. Quite frankly I thought that the Gillott 404 was a more fun nib to use. I've never seen or even heard of half the other nibs on your list, and I doubt I'll run across them either. Interesting comparison nonetheless.

[FOUR X FOUR]

I would so love to be able to write like you, Andrew.

[bobje]

Me too, Four X Four! Me too!

[sakayume]

What an interwesting comparison, thank you for sharing it. I'm not familiar with any of these nibs, having used only modern ones so far, but I was very interested to read your thoughts on how these dip pen nibs compared to flexible fountain pens nibs. I've been interested in flexible nibbed fountain pens but have begun wondering whether I've put myself on a wild goose chase since the Leonardt Principal EF has completely rewritten my definition of "flexible".

 

And your writing is beautiful. I'm inspired to start my own record of the nibs I've used.

Edited April 11, 2016 by candide

[AAAndrew]

Thank you all for your kind words. I still am so far from where I'd like to be in my writing, but I have made progress from when I started last July. And I'm lazy and don't do drills.

 

Here's an example. Just last week I found a quote I had written back in July or August just after I had discovered this flexible nib thing. This was written with my vintage Conklin with a flexible nib.

 

I thought it would be fun to copy the quote with how I write now. Consistency is much better, but still could use some work on spacing and tweaking the details.

 

But if you're just starting out, this proves that it can be done. If I can write like this, anyone can. I couldn't even write cursive two years ago.

 

Andrew

 

[Cryptos]

Well, you could hardly credit it, but I just looked on Fleabay and have snagged 18 Gillott 292s for $22. Seemed a reasonable deal to try these I guess.

 

 

This is all your fault, AAAndrew!

[AAAndrew]

Glad to be of service!

 

I'd compare them more with the 404's than the 303's, at least the ones I have. I think you'll like them.

 

That's what I love to do, find the hidden gems that aren't on any "list" but are wonderful to use. That's why I have so many types of steel pens. Yeah, that's it. That's why. Uh, huh.

[Cryptos]

I notice that the Bay of E is awash with "dream nibs" right now, and they are selling for eye-watering prices. And at the prices they are right now I do hope they are going to an actual calligrapher and not some sidewalk salesman looking to make a quick buck.

[dhnz]

Christopher Yoke is selling the gross of Zanerian Fine Writers (which got to $880 after only two days), the grosses of Gillott 601EFs and 604EFs, Spencerian 1s, and Esterbrook 128s, and the near gross of Gillott 303s.

 

A reseller might calculate on reselling some of these (like the Fine Writers) at $30 a nib (which is not unrealistic, since someone just paid US$130 for a single nib (yes, a single nib):

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SINGLE-ZANERIAN-FINE-WRITER-NIB-THE-KING-OF-THE-HILL-CREAM-OF-THE-CROP-/121948738850?hash=item1c64b61522%3Ag%3AkOQAAOSwZ8ZXBsYT&nma=true&si=YH6npc6OWwlBytH0KGC%252FwiaGggo%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

 

It should be noted that they paid that absolutely stupid price even though they were also available at the same time for Buy-it-Now from a different seller at US$28!

 

So, if you work on a markup of 50 per cent, a reseller may pay up to US$2160. They could go higher if they were happy with a smaller margin, though they would be sitting on them for a long time to sell all 144. I doubt they'd sell more than one a week.

 

They could go to a professional or a beginner with deep pockets or a reseller. I think we'll see them go for between US$10 and US$20 per. If they do go to a user, based on what I’ve seen of modern calligraphers’ work, I can't think of anyone off the top of my head who will get anything more out of them than they would a Leonardt Principal.

 

As for the rusty Fine Writers and Principalities that were also for sale, they went for about US$3 each. I thought they’d go for more actually, but I imagine a few bidders bailed when they saw Christopher Yoke’s offerings. Considering the confused listings, the potato-quality photos, and the rust (which may have rendered at least some of them unusable), there was no way I’d bid on them.

 

You can get bargains on small lots of nibs all the time, but I for one am not interested in them, because a handful of nibs of a particular style (or even a gross) is not going to last. I want something that I don’t have to worry about running out of once I get really comfortable with them, which is why I stick to using modern nibs.

[AAAndrew]

And someone was offering a Zanerian 3 for $28 each. They're nice pens and all, but that's crazy money.

[smk]

Is that Christopher Yoke selling the gross lots of dream nibs? He was very vocal against selling nibs in open auction (or was it only buying them?) and recently started a topic on another board stating he wanted to get them in the 'right' hands i.e. people who would use them and not sell them.

 

- Salman

[Cryptos]

No idea, though it seems from some of the rumours going around that it may be him.

 

I was looking through my cigar box nib storage today and noted, rather surprisingly, that I have 45 different nib models. Not sure how that happened, but anyway. Of the so-called "dream nibs" I've only ever seen or tried a Spencerian #1, that I bought for $10. I'm not really into chasing these things - wouldn't have the skills to make them sing really - but I wouldn't mind trying just one of each out of pure curiosity. With all the attention these are getting now I would imagine that prices will continue to be out of reach for most of us.

 

I very nearly had a go with a GIllot 604ef, sent to me by Chris Yoke, but it never arrived and so the opportunity was forever lost.

 

Now, here's a curious thing. In among my rusting stack of old nibs I found a Soennecken S26. It's a stub nib, very narrow along the whole length and very long. It also has this weird reservoir kind of structure. I dipped it and wrote 4 and half lines of A5. Seemed okay, but then again I do like stubby/italic nibs.

[AAAndrew]

Is that Christopher Yoke selling the gross lots of dream nibs? He was very vocal against selling nibs in open auction (or was it only buying them?) and recently started a topic on another board stating he wanted to get them in the 'right' hands i.e. people who would use them and not sell them.

 

- Salman

 

I've been told on another forum that it is Christopher Yoke, and much of the proceeds are going to a charity. I've not heard it from Mr. Yoke himself, and I don't know his eBay account so I can't verify that.

 

I guess if they are being sold to someone who will turn around and sell them, they will, eventually, get into the hands of people who will use them. Eventually. After massive markup.

 

I'm seeing a bit of a bubble right now. Now may be a good time to sell and not to buy. Not sure how long this will last, but anything with a hint of "flexible" seems to be going well.

[dhnz]

They absolutely are Christopher Yoke's auctions; he posted pictures of the nibs and the auction numbers on his Facebook page when he first listed them. He said that he realised that he couldn't control what happened to them once they were sold (ie, he couldn't stop people reselling them), so he was just going to auction them and give some of the proceeds to charity.

[Cryptos]

Pity. I was rather hoping he might have sold a representative sample (i.e. one of each nib) to me for an equitable price. The auctions tend to get a bit absurd.