What Is Persian Celluloid Supposed To Look Like?

[phaus]

Every once in a while I see either a Patricia or a Waterman 94 in Persian celluloid, but they are usually pretty discoloured. I've been trying to do some research on them, but even on the internet most of the pictures appear to be discolored. Does anyone have a Persian Waterman that isn't discolored? Do pictures of the original coloring exist? If not, does anyone know what it is supposed to look like?

[gregamckinney]

The pencils are the best way to see the original color since they don't degrade the way the pens do.

As far as I've been able to determine, the pencil fifth from the left is the example closest to original I've come across:

 

http://gergyor.com/images/persians.jpg

 

Best Regards, greg

[phaus]

That's a great collection. Do the pens dis-color as a result of having ink left in them for a long period of time or is there another reason?

[gregamckinney]

For celluloid discoloration in general, I believe the jury is still out on why the discoloration takes place. It is some combination of off-gassing from the sacs and/ or the ink in the sacs.

In the case of Persian, the material is also extremely unstable. I suspect there is some decay that took place simply from UV exposure or oxidation. However, I'm not a chemist, and am just speculating.

In any event, as you mentioned initially, it is very uncommon to see a non-discolored pen.

 

Regards, greg

[Vintagepens]

The evidence strongly indicates that the primary agent of celluloid pen discoloration is sac deterioration byproducts, rather than the ink by itself. Ink can stain celluloid, but that deeply-penetrating brownish discoloration isn't found where the exposure is to ink alone.

 

Nice picture of the range of Persians!

Note that Canadian Watermans are often found with a Persian that looks quite different, with characteristic blue veining. Is the set on the right of the photo Canadian?

 

all best

 

David

[phaus]

The evidence strongly indicates that the primary agent of celluloid pen discoloration is sac deterioration byproducts, rather than the ink by itself. Ink can stain celluloid, but that deeply-penetrating brownish discoloration isn't found where the exposure is to ink alone.

 

Nice picture of the range of Persians!

Note that Canadian Watermans are often found with a Persian that looks quite different, with characteristic blue veining. Is the set on the right of the photo Canadian?

 

all best

 

David

Does that mean I should re-sac all of my celluloid pens to make sure they have silicon sacs?

 

Also, the blue-veined Persian looks really nice, even if that isn't the original coloring.

Edited March 3, 2016 by phaus

[TheRealScubaSteve]

 

 

Love the deep color on the pen body 5th from right.

[inkstainedruth]

Those are really interesting looking. I don't know a whole lot about Watermans in general, but the thread title caught my eye.

Is is just me, or does the mottling of the celluloid colors seem reminiscent of the Visconti Van Gogh collection pens, with the small blotches of color blending and swirling together to make for a harmonious overall look?

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[gregamckinney]

The evidence strongly indicates that the primary agent of celluloid pen discoloration is sac deterioration byproducts, rather than the ink by itself. Ink can stain celluloid, but that deeply-penetrating brownish discoloration isn't found where the exposure is to ink alone.

 

Nice picture of the range of Persians!

Note that Canadian Watermans are often found with a Persian that looks quite different, with characteristic blue veining. Is the set on the right of the photo Canadian?

 

all best

 

David

 

Hi David,

Yes, the set on the right is Canadian.

greg

[Vintagepens]

Does that mean I should re-sac all of my celluloid pens to make sure they have silicon sacs?

 

That really depends upon the pen. Is the celluloid a color that is vulnerable to discoloration? Is the color pristine, or already substantially darkened? Also consider that button-fillers are much more vulnerable to discoloration, especially if not regularly used, since the barrel is tightly sealed by the blind cap -- much more so than a lever-filler.

 

There are pros and cons to each sac material. Latex is still the best for the average user.

More detailed info here and here.

[eaudom]

Hope this image load works....thought I would share. the pen with best color came to me about 20 years ago without a lever. Given the uniform coloration, I suspect it lost its lever early in its life. I did a poor job of installing one. But I have stored it all these years without an ink sac. This one was made in Canada. The discolored one was made in USA. These are both full size 94's.

 

http://i1371.photobucket.com/albums/ag291/caroleanddon/P1050650_zpszpxfjjcn.jpg

 

http://i1371.photobucket.com/albums/ag291/caroleanddon/P1050652_zpsegavw8dz.jpg

 

http://i1371.photobucket.com/albums/ag291/caroleanddon/P1050654_zpsktumvumd.jpg

[eaudom]

could not resist one more picture:

 

http://i1371.photobucket.com/albums/ag291/caroleanddon/P1050651_zpsnk6llx6e.jpg

[gregamckinney]

Beautiful pen, eaudom. I lightened the final photo a bit, and the colors are just spectacular. The nicest pen I think I've seen.

 

http://gergyor.com/images/lightened.jpg

 

Best Regards, greg

[kirchh]

I have a nice example as well:

 

 

--Daniel

[gregamckinney]

I have a nice example as well:

 

 

--Daniel

I just saw that one on your site. Incredible!

greg

[eaudom]

Thanks Greg and wow Daniel!

[RMN]

That's lovely, Daniel.

 

 

D.ick