How Do We Know?

[meiers]

Kudos to the moderators for keeping this conversation grounded in reality.

[JonSzanto]

Kudos to the moderators for keeping this conversation grounded in reality.

 

Naturally, there are alternate realities. I still have heard virtually no dialogue or information as to precisely what an outside agency is allowed to control in public discourse, outside unauthorized distribution of copyrighted materials.

[meiers]

 

Naturally, there are alternate realities. I still have heard virtually no dialogue or information as to precisely what an outside agency is allowed to control in public discourse, outside unauthorized distribution of copyrighted materials.

It's all spelled out clearly in the forum rules.

[JonSzanto]

It's all spelled out clearly in the forum rules.

 

No, it is not. There are gray areas, and some of us would like to understand the parameters.

[jar]

 

No, it is not. There are gray areas, and some of us would like to understand the parameters.

How about common courtesy as the parameter. If a company asks us not to discuss post information that has not been released complying with the request.

[orfew]

How about common courtesy as the parameter. If a company asks us not to discuss post information that has not been released complying with the request.

 

+1

[salesguy]

What happens when a company asks us not discuss a problem with one if their products?

 

Is that ok?

 

I'm a huge MB fan, but they really dropped the ball on this.

 

Common courtesy has nothing to do with this, it's about control - freakery.

[JonSzanto]

How about common courtesy as the parameter. If a company asks us not to discuss post information that has not been released complying with the request.

 

Yes, I'm really concerned with the hurting the personal feelings of a large, ultra-rich, multi-national company. It's Montblanc, for crying out loud.

 

I just find it fascinating that people have become so subservient to our corporate overlords. Courtesy is a two-way street, and I don't see them being anything but litigious-leaning bullies.

[jar]

What happens when a company asks us not discuss a problem with one if their products?

 

Is that ok?

 

I'm a huge MB fan, but they really dropped the ball on this.

 

Common courtesy has nothing to do with this, it's about control - freakery.

We will decide that if and when that happens. But the evidence is that Montblanc has never objected to fact based criticism of their products yet and so your question is irrelevant.

 

Sorry your pants are in a wad but it's very possible you will get through it.

[jar]

 

Yes, I'm really concerned with the hurting the personal feelings of a large, ultra-rich, multi-national company. It's Montblanc, for crying out loud.

 

I just find it fascinating that people have become so subservient to our corporate overlords. Courtesy is a two-way street, and I don't see them being anything but litigious-leaning bullies.

And that's fine, you are of course completely free to feel that way. However the courtesy I was speaking of was not to Montblanc but rather the owners, admins and moderators of this forum. Montblanc has never contacted me about the subject, they have and as a matter of basic courtesy I will comply with the requests from the board Admins.

 

The idea that it is a matter of subservience is simply laughable.

[JonSzanto]

The idea that it is a matter of subservience is simply laughable.

 

Not if it had been in regard to the company, but that was an unclarity in your message. Courtesy to the owners of the board, that I can understand. I would also, courteously, enjoy reasoning behind some of the more... remarkable constraints on the users - contributors - to this forum.

[ian1964]

We will decide that if and when that happens. But the evidence is that Montblanc has never objected to fact based criticism of their products yet and so your question is irrelevant.

 

Sorry your pants are in a wad but it's very possible you will get through it.

 

So Jar, the insults have started!

Always the same characters who jump up and down whenever Mb is mentioned. Why does the subject of Mb always descend to the gutter? I think it's to get the thread locked and stifle further discussion.

[Uncial]

We all live in a world where we are no longer used to waiting. Sadly this means more of us are inclined to act like the child at the supermarket checkout who spots sweets and throws an epic tantrum because they want to eat them all immediately rather than wait until they get home.

[jar]

 

So Jar, the insults have started!

Always the same characters who jump up and down whenever Mb is mentioned. Why does the subject of Mb always descend to the gutter? I think it's to get the thread locked and stifle further discussion.

You're new and so ignorance is excusable but if you read what I have posted over the years you will find I am not a great defender of Montblanc and honestly don't consider it among the top tier even when just considering German made pens. Montblanc is certainly not among my favorite marques. It's a nice brand and a few of their current products I find interesting but for the most part their resent offerings have been more like a joke and I have repeatedly criticized those products.

 

The facts though are that Montblanc has never objected to fact or even opinion based criticism of their products and so your question is irrelevant. If and when that might happen it is an issue that should be considered. I have been free to question offerings like the "M" and suggest that magnetic caps are a solution looking for a problem.

 

But we are talking about fountain pens, not anything of major importance. Fountain pens are a really weird affectation in these days, a truly small niche, an outlier. The admins made a request. Common courtesy suggests we should comply with their request. It really is that simple.

[ian1964]

"ignorance"? And that's not supposed to be insulting? Well thank goodness we have old timers like you to put us right.

[jar]

"ignorance"? And that's not supposed to be insulting? Well thank goodness we have old timers like you to put us right.

We are all ignorant about most things and ignorance can often be cured. No one should be insulted by being ignorant until it is willful ignorance. Fortunately I find at least one thing I'm ignorant about most every day.

 

When you post "Always the same characters who jump up and down whenever Mb is mentioned." it is a good idea to know if the assertion you are making can be supported.

[Kalessin]

 

We still cannot discussed unreleased pens... this was a recent request made as an amendment to the current rules. I am not sure if they have been changed at this point to reflect the new restrictions. Kalessin is referring to the point that posts are not simply deleted because they are controversial or negative in nature. However, this refers to posts outside of the discussion of unreleased pens, i.e., reviews of released pens, comments about boutiques, or after-sales experiences. I believe it is merely being said that the forum is not so highly regulated to remove any non-glorious discussions or opinions. However, posts made about unreleased pens or products, controversial or not, now fall under the guideline of not discussing unreleased products. Once a product is released, we are free to controversially discuss away (within the guidelines of the rules of course).

 

 

Yes, this was my point.

[Kalessin]

As a favor from all of us, and to all of us, please keep posts, phrasing and word choice in this topic thread even more polite and civilized than usual.

 

It's easy to inadvertently insult someone else when using familiar vernacular when there are contentious issues being discussed.

 

I would prefer to keep this thread open and to avoid having to remove posts from it, but I won't hesitate to do so if the situation warrants it.

[ian1964]

We are all ignorant about most things and ignorance can often be cured. No one should be insulted by being ignorant until it is willful ignorance. Fortunately I find at least one thing I'm ignorant about most every day.

 

When you post "Always the same characters who jump up and down whenever Mb is mentioned." it is a good idea to know if the assertion you are making can be supported.

 

Yes, fair point.

[JonSzanto]

Yes, this was my point.

 

Since you are a Moderator, since you are aware of this rule (amendment) that is not even codified in writing at this point, and since you are obviously aware of the discussions that led to this decision, could you care to explain the philosophy behind a ban on public discussion on products that do not exist? I have asked this question in a couple of ways in a couple of threads and I have received no answer whatsoever, and it really baffles me (both the decision and the avoidance of explaining it).

 

Thank you.