How Do We Know?

[jmccarty3]

As someone who desires to cooperate with the rules of the forum, I have a question. How are we supposed to know when Montblanc has officially released a given product and ended the embargo on discussion about it?

 

The publication of a catalog that is accessible to boutique customers apparently does not qualify.

 

The Montblanc web site is not helpful in this regard. To my knowledge, there is no readily available listing of officially released Montblanc products (or their dates of release).

 

Montblanc products are often available in some locations long before becoming available in others. Is it permissible for those who live in an area where the product has been released to discuss it, but not those who live elsewhere? Or must everyone defer discussion until the product is available everywhere? In the case of LE inks, the product might be sold out before this happens. Again, how would we know? Who is going to risk being the first to say anything, at the risk of losing his or her FPN account?

 

I hope that in the promised April meeting, FPN not only will express its eagerness to enforce the embargo, but also will beg Montblanc to inform us what their criteria are for considering their products officially released, and to find a way to inform their customers when it is allowed to speak about them without fear of reprisal.

 

 

[JLS1]

I've been thinking about this 'embargo' for a while (actually, 'wrestling' would be a better term.) You raise some good points, but IMHO, FPN is in a difficult position: it's obviously big/important enough that MB regularly monitors it, but it is also not big/important enough to simply tell Montblanc that this particular problem originated from their boutiques, not FPN. I really sympathize with Wim and the Mods...I really doubt they like being in this situation either.

 

With that said, I'd like to make a small suggestion in advance of the MB/FPN meeting: one of the outcomes of this meeting should be to designate someone on both sides as points-of-contact (POC) with respect to marketing communications, release dates, etc. From MB, a good POC would be someone in their global marketing department, and from FPN it could be Wim or one of the MB Mods. These POCs would meet on a regular basis (quarterly?) and be trusted by their respective party to both represent their interests and also respect the confidentiality of the other party.

 

Doing this would accomplish a few things:

- it would establish an official communication channel between FPN and MB that (at least AFAIK) doesn't exist for other pen manufacturers;

- it would allow MB to communicate their release schedules to FPN (as well as any particular concerns, issues, problems, suggestions) to FPN in a regular and relatively organized manner; and

- it would allow FPN to monitor the MB forum, so as to identify and manage any 'leaks' (inadvertent or intentional) without undue pressure that would cause ill-will, loss of face and/or recriminations to either (or more likely both) sides, as well as allow these sorts of questions to be raised.

 

While the above is only a suggestion, I think that there is enough common ground between MB and FPN that some agreement can be made and relationship established. After all, at the end of the day MB wants to sell as many pens (and other goods) as possible to stay in business. The MB forum on FPN represents a group of people who are not only obvious customers of those pens, but also potential influencers/evangelists for the MB brand. I'm optimistic that establishing some communications channel between the two would help develop this relationship into the future.

[LeonW]

Any guess on the date of Montblanc's publicity roadshow starting?

 

I say 23rd April, "early" in the day.

 

No prizes for guessing correct, just a warm fuzzy feel.

[CS388]

Any guess on the date of Montblanc's publicity roadshow starting?

 

I say 23rd April, "early" in the day.

 

No prizes for guessing correct, just a warm fuzzy feel.

 

Appropriately, Shakespeare's birthday/deathday (as far as we know).

Edited February 29, 2016 by CS388

[wimg]

As far as I know, announcements will be made April, 5th.

And our talks with Montblanc take place before the official announcement, I will confirm those days . We are actually meeting next month (March) already .

 

You all raise valid points, and Montblanc already indicated to us that from hereon forward we will receive materials and calendar dates as well, the details to be discussed in our meeting(s).

I am currently preparing for those meetings - I will report back in this forum on the outcome, but you can be assured I will take your suggestions up with Montblanc.

 

Warm regards, Wim

[JLS1]

As far as I know, announcements will be made April, 5th.

And our talks with Montblanc take place before the official announcement, I will confirm those days . We are actually meeting next month (March) already .

 

You all raise valid points, and Montblanc already indicated to us that from hereon forward we will receive materials and calendar dates as well, the details to be discussed in our meeting(s).

I am currently preparing for those meetings - I will report back in this forum on the outcome, but you can be assured I will take your suggestions up with Montblanc.

 

Warm regards, Wim

 

That's good news Wim, and thanks for sharing this with us! I look forward to hearing what comes out of this meeting.

[chunya]

 

Appropriately, Shakespeare's birthday/deathday (as far as we know).

Also St George's Day ... perhaps St George could be seen wielding a pen instead of a lance ... if the pen is mightier than the sword, then ....

[bleair]

As someone who desires to cooperate with the rules of the forum, I have a question. How are we supposed to know when Montblanc has officially released a given product and ended the embargo on discussion about it?

 

The publication of a catalog that is accessible to boutique customers apparently does not qualify.

 

The Montblanc web site is not helpful in this regard. To my knowledge, there is no readily available listing of officially released Montblanc products (or their dates of release).

 

Montblanc products are often available in some locations long before becoming available in others. Is it permissible for those who live in an area where the product has been released to discuss it, but not those who live elsewhere? Or must everyone defer discussion until the product is available everywhere? In the case of LE inks, the product might be sold out before this happens. Again, how would we know? Who is going to risk being the first to say anything, at the risk of losing his or her FPN account?

 

I hope that in the promised April meeting, FPN not only will express its eagerness to enforce the embargo, but also will beg Montblanc to inform us what their criteria are for considering their products officially released, and to find a way to inform their customers when it is allowed to speak about them without fear of reprisal.

 

 

 

I think it's clear that if you post something that is negative, or if it's posted when someone else doesn't want it to be posted it will be deleted.

 

Trying to know what in advance harms someone else's financial interests is impossible. Just be aware your posts will be removed as needed.

[dcwaites]

I haven't gotten involved in this discussion because I really don't use much of MB's products, except some out-of-date ink that I bought for the bottle.

 

However, were I to write a fair and honest review of a MB product, that wasn't complimentary, but was backed up by evidence (writing scans, photos, etc), then I would expect it to stay put.

[jar]

I have not seen any examples of reasonable fact based posts even when they are critical being deleted.

[JLS1]

I have not seen any examples of reasonable fact based posts even when they are critical being deleted.

 

Same here. I think the issue at hand is not whether a post is positive/negative (so long as it's objective), but more whether a product that's being discussed has been released (or at least publicly disclosed) by MB HQ.

[jamesgibby]

hi all,

 

i don't think that it is the intention to censure us in terms of what we write. i think the problem here is that we may be using copyright images that Montblanc has not officially released yet. in those circumstances they are entitled to protect their copyright in this respect.

 

i myself (I'm big on the reviews hence the review index etc) have not always been complimentary especially to the 90th Anniversary 149 (that rose gold is terrible compared to the 75th Anniversary rose gold editions) and no one has complained or sought to censor me.

 

i think that we can hopefully show MB that our forum is good for their brand. we are their target market with the ££££ to commit to buying their products. if we are negative its because we have a passion and perhaps the product or some of their new lines of pens aren't appealing to us. if they come to value us then perhaps they will be able to share more information with us, gives guidance or open up a dialog with us.

 

it seems that this may now be happening and we should all welcome what is the first real approach by MB and see where it leads.

[salesguy]

I hate to be the dissenting voice, but I don't agree with the actions taken in deleting the previous thread, or in banning discussion over unreleased pens.

 

Part of the attraction of forums such as this is to exchange rumours about upcoming releases - with as many pictures as possible! If those are secured at MB boutiques, then why not?

 

Of course companies want to control the 'message' but that is a vain hope in the days of the Internet. In addition I fail to see what damage (financial or otherwise) can be done by such discussion. Indeed, in my case, the original posting with the pictures of the 110th Anniversary editions has only served to stimulate my desire!

 

Given the pictures are only a Google away (as I demonstrated to the staff in the Perth shop) the fact that we cannot discuss them on this board seems somewhat ridiculous

 

I'm not a lawyer (thank god) but I fail to see how MB could make / win a claim against the owners of this site. For a claim to be successful they would have to demonstrate loss - IMHO, impossible.

 

So - my question to the mods is why the ban & what does the site gain from it?

 

Or is discussion of the subject banned as well?

[jamesgibby]

Discussion is not banned. However the only point made in the letter is that we are publishing copyright materials without authorisation. Discussions rumours etc are perfectly fine. Yes they are a Google search away but MB also chases those websites and does the same thing.

 

Whilst I myself don't see the harm and agree with your sentiment that our discussions and posting of pics only creates hype (think apple and all the rumours every time a new product is about to be launched and photos leaked) I think we have to respect (whether you agree or not) that the copyright holder does not authorise you using their images

[jar]

 

Or is discussion of the subject banned as well?

Not banned, just pointless.

[salesguy]

So, a picture taken of the William Shakepeare at an exhibition would be fine, assuming the taker of the picture gave permission?

 

Not based on what I've read in other threads

 

Jar - why pointless? Or are other opinions not valid?

 

Also, given the original thread covering the 'embargo' was deleted, it does feel like discussion is banned.

 

Quote from Wim:

 

I would like to draw your attention to the fact that you cannot, unfortunately, discuss any Montblanc pens which have not been released officially yet, IOW, in this case any pens to be released this year.

Edited March 1, 2016 by salesguy

[jar]

So, a picture taken of the William Shakepeare at an exhibition would be fine, assuming the taker of the picture gave permission?

 

Not based on what I've read in other threads

 

Jar - why pointless? Or are other opinions not valid?

 

Also, given the original thread covering the 'embargo' was deleted, it does feel like discussion is banned.

 

Quote from Wim:

 

I would like to draw your attention to the fact that you cannot, unfortunately, discuss any Montblanc pens which have not been released officially yet, IOW, in this case any pens to be released this year.

And so you have the final solution. Further discussion really is pointless.

[JonSzanto]

I can understand a manufacturer wanting, and trying, to enforce copyright, and if items that fall under that (written and visual), they would have recourse if abused.

 

However, I see no way that any corporation can legally ban people from talking about a product if the people involved in the discussion are not signatories to a NDA. Furthermore, in this case, I can't see any possible legal ramifications to an entity like FPN if the discussion is not utilizing any copyrighted (is that a word?) materials.

 

I find all of this baffling. It was my impression that buzz was a positive attribute to the run-up for a new product.

[jsolares]

I can understand a manufacturer wanting, and trying, to enforce copyright, and if items that fall under that (written and visual), they would have recourse if abused.

 

However, I see no way that any corporation can legally ban people from talking about a product if the people involved in the discussion are not signatories to a NDA. Furthermore, in this case, I can't see any possible legal ramifications to an entity like FPN if the discussion is not utilizing any copyrighted (is that a word?) materials.

 

I find all of this baffling. It was my impression that buzz was a positive attribute to the run-up for a new product.

 

 

 

Well the problem i saw with one thread in the past is that some of those pictures aren't completely representative of the actual pen, more like renders in some cases and have looked like (bleep) on top of being a crappy picture of a picture, so the buzz was negative, and those are actually copyrighted materials. whether they fall under fair use or not i couldn't tell, perhaps so.

 

Maybe they should send those books/catalogs to the boutiques closer to the release date since it shouldn't really be our (FPN) problem if they let people take pictures of them.

[vikrmbedi]

in my opinion,

 

discussing future items without pictures ( actual/ copyrighted ) creates hype and excitement.

 

this also means, people who are serious buyers/enthusiasts would visit their showrooms to get more info...this creates footfall for their stores. this may result in sales as people would end up buying one thing or the other....

 

if the actual photos are released...people make up their minds . Either they don't visit their stores or if they do, they do so with a particular thing in mind and may not browse the stock...

 

I know too many hypotheticals... but I think any footfall is very important for these physical boutiques, as more and more people are relying on online purchases...