Experiences With Martemodena

[Chrissy]

  On 8/13/2017 at 5:09 AM, Theroc said:

I ordered from MM many times the last two years and my experience with them has been largely positive.

Their shipping charges for auctions are rather excessive, but that's their way of setting the starting bid. eBay does not charge commission on shipping charges. At least that has been my experience. So the only party cheated by MM would be eBay. eBay, however, does not seem to mind.

Anyway, a few weeks ago I won two pens at auction from them. They have yet to ship them. In the past they always shipped within two business days and I would receive my package within a week. When I inquired about the delay, I was told that I am buying some of the finest pens... etc. etc. that the delay is from the manufacturer and that I can cancel my order if I don't want to wait. The thing is I won the fountain pens at a shockingly low (but still substantial) sum and I can't help but feel that MM are trying to bore me into cancelling the order. Their feedback history for the last month shows a notable increase in the number of negative experiences, all very similar to mine.

 

eBay now charges their final value fees on the total amount of money received, including P&P or shipping & handling. So eBay is the only one NOT cheated by MM 'postage gouging' which is what it is.

 

All of their buyers are cheated, and MM are also hurting their own 'secret star ratings.' This removes all of their free monthly listings and any eBay special offers on fees, and puts their items at the bottom of searches. So postage gouging is now pointless.

 

In fact I looked at the eBay ID last night, and because of the continued postage gouging that they do, their buyers have been giving them really bad secret star ratings on their profile page, and rightly so. They are now down at 4.4 out of 5.

 

This means that they might be heading for an automatic ban of 30 days, depending on how many bad star ratings they get compared with good star ratings. Maybe if they get that it would be a wake-up call.

 

It's good to know that postage gougers now damage themselves in addition to ripping off their buyers

 

Slow dispatch or 'trying to bore their buyers into cancelling' because of a 'great deal' also damages them as a seller. When they sell an item, their is a 'delivery by date' on the buyers eBay invoice, and when the buyer leaves feedback one of the questions is 'was the item delivered by that date?' Whenever the answer to that question is no, that's another nail in MM's coffin.

 

They will be fortunate if they can remain as a seller through this period of negative feedbacks, slow delivery and postage gouging. I wonder if they will set up another eBay ID and start again?

[aeba]

Personally I could not care less whether I pay 100 € for a pen and get free postage; or pay 100 € for postage and get a free pen. That's 100 € out of my pocket, and that's that. If the total price goes over what I am keen on paying, I can just walk away.

 

How ever, the other shenanigans they seem to be doing, those are different thing.

 

Final nail to their coffin to me is, that they don't have anything interesting any more. Waterman are out. Delta as a company folded...

 

Btw, their website has a popup (yup, a popup) which claims that they are on summer holidays until 15th.

 

Edit: added bolded part for clarification.

Edited August 13, 2017 by aeba

[jkingrph]

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Very odd reasoning. First, medicine is a necessity, for the ill; fountain pens are hardly a necessity for anyone. Second, to take your analogy; if some pharmacies raise their prices by one or two dollars but the medicine is readily available at other pharmacies at the lower prices, then what is the problem? Third, continuing with your analogy, there are probably a large number of people who don't complain if the price of their medicine goes up by one or two dollars; for example, I imagine that people who spend money (sometimes in large amounts) on luxuries like fountain pens and fancy inks probably don't complain about a dollar or two increases in the prices of pharmaceuticals.

​I see what you are saying. I have been working relief mostly in a small grocery store chain with pharmacies since my retirement from a hospital setting of over 40 years. The ones I see complaining the most are not so much getting necessities, but because of habituations or addictions, and you often see them with wine, cartons of beer, cigarettes, sodas and cases of bottled water, in an area where tap water is excellent. They may not be buying what we call luxury goods like fountain pens, but are certainly not thinking and spending wisely.

 

I am thinking as it seems some others are, is that shipping should not be a profit center. It may be legally, but morally I don't think it's right.

[FriendAmos]

  On 8/13/2017 at 6:29 AM, Chrissy said:

All of their buyers are cheated,

 

The shipping prices are all displayed. Prospective buyers willingly enter the auctions with a knowledge of those prices and have the option of going elsewhere. So, if they are going to get cheated, as you claim, then they know it ahead of time. And if then they still decide to go ahead, then they are simply fools. Who then should be blamed for their foolishness?

[FriendAmos]

  On 8/13/2017 at 1:23 PM, jkingrph said:

​I see what you are saying. I have been working relief mostly in a small grocery store chain with pharmacies since my retirement from a hospital setting of over 40 years. The ones I see complaining the most are not so much getting necessities, but because of habituations or addictions, and you often see them with wine, cartons of beer, cigarettes, sodas and cases of bottled water, in an area where tap water is excellent. They may not be buying what we call luxury goods like fountain pens, but are certainly not thinking and spending wisely.

 

I am thinking as it seems some others are, is that shipping should not be a profit center. It may be legally, but morally I don't think it's right.

 

So, these people are not thinking and spending wisely. They will blow their money on booze and cigarettes before they worry about necessities. And this is the lot that, with their complaints about $1-$2 increases in the prices, you chose to buttress your arguments against Martemodena?

 

I don't see it as a moral issue at all, and I don't know many people who on buying an item will stop to ponder moral issues in a breakdown of whatever they are paying.

[FriendAmos]

  On 8/13/2017 at 8:53 AM, aeba said:

 

Final nail to their coffin is, that they don't have anything interesting any more. Waterman are out. Delta as a company folded...

 

Btw, their website has a popup (yup, a popup) which claims that they are on summer holidays until 15th.

 

I don't see that as a nail in their coffin. There are pens other than Waterman and Delta, and they seem to have found them: they are doing a roaring trade in Viscontis and Montblancs.

 

Like most Italian companies, most (and probably all) their employees are most likely on a long summer vacation. Why does that excite you?

[Chrissy]

  On 8/13/2017 at 2:25 PM, FriendAmos said:

 

The shipping prices are all displayed. Prospective buyers willingly enter the auctions with a knowledge of those prices and have the option of going elsewhere. So, if they are going to get cheated, as you claim, then they know it ahead of time. And if then they still decide to go ahead, then they are simply fools. Who then should be blamed for their foolishness?

 

The shipping prices that they are planning on charging their buyers is indeed displayed. How do you know what the actual price of shipping the parcel is before you receive it though? It just looks several times higher than the amount that most sellers charge. You don't know what carrier or service they will actually use until you get it. So that is the only time you can compare what they charged you with what they were charged by their carrier.

 

The seller is the only person who knows the actual price.

[sketchstack]

  On 8/13/2017 at 2:25 PM, FriendAmos said:

 

The shipping prices are all displayed.

 

If they charge more for postage than it actually costs then those aren't "shipping prices".

[Theroc]

  On 8/13/2017 at 6:29 AM, Chrissy said:

eBay now charges their final value fees on the total amount of money received, including P&P or shipping & handling. So eBay is the only one NOT cheated by MM 'postage gouging' which is what it is.

 

All of their buyers are cheated, and MM are also hurting their own 'secret star ratings.' This removes all of their free monthly listings and any eBay special offers on fees, and puts their items at the bottom of searches. So postage gouging is now pointless.

 

That's good to know. The last time I sold on eBay I offered free shipping and it was a while back, so my information is dated.

I think as long as the buyer receives the item they bought in the condition described for what they agreed to pay (S&H included), the buyer is not being cheated.

However, it's just plain untruthful (to avoid using the word 'dishonest') what they do.

If two sellers offered the same item, one for $1+$49S&H, and the other for $36+$14S&H I'd buy from the latter every time.

They are really only hurting themselves.

 

 

  On 8/13/2017 at 6:29 AM, Chrissy said:

They will be fortunate if they can remain as a seller through this period of negative feedbacks, slow delivery and postage gouging. I wonder if they will set up another eBay ID and start again?

 

They already tried that earlier this year. Didn't go well. Their MarteModena2017 account is now inactive.

[aeba]

  On 8/13/2017 at 2:35 PM, FriendAmos said:

 

I don't see that as a nail in their coffin. There are pens other than Waterman and Delta, and they seem to have found them: they are doing a roaring trade in Viscontis and Montblancs.

 

Like most Italian companies, most (and probably all) their employees are most likely on a long summer vacation. Why does that excite you?

It doesn't excite me. Just mentioned that because there was some talk about order(s) not being shipped, although that was on august. However, I wouldn't use popups of any kind to convey messages like that.

[FriendAmos]

  On 8/13/2017 at 3:38 PM, Chrissy said:

 

The shipping prices that they are planning on charging their buyers is indeed displayed. How do you know what the actual price of shipping the parcel is before you receive it though? It just looks several times higher than the amount that most sellers charge. You don't know what carrier or service they will actually use until you get it. So that is the only time you can compare what they charged you with what they were charged by their carrier.

 

The seller is the only person who knows the actual price.

 

You have missed the point, which is this: Regardless of what the "actual price" might be, anyone who enters an auction after seeing a "displayed price" accepts the latter price, as he or she similarly accepts all other conditions that the seller might have in place. So to then later complain about "high prices" is simply absurd. Are people somehow hoping that the shipping price will somehow miraculously change from what is displayed, and, if so, on what basis?

[FriendAmos]

  On 8/13/2017 at 5:49 PM, Theroc said:

However, it's just plain untruthful (to avoid using the word 'dishonest') what they do.

 

They are really only hurting themselves

 

How exactly are they being untruthful? They show certain shipping prices, and they ship at those prices. Seems pretty truthful to me.

 

I don't think buyers should get too worked up that Martemodena is hurting themselves. That might not be their view, and it is in any case their problem.

Edited August 13, 2017 by FriendAmos

[Chrissy]

  On 8/13/2017 at 9:56 PM, FriendAmos said:

 

You have missed the point, which is this: Regardless of what the "actual price" might be, anyone who enters an auction after seeing a "displayed price" accepts the latter price, as he or she similarly accepts all other conditions that the seller might have in place. So to then later complain about "high prices" is simply absurd. Are people somehow hoping that the shipping price will somehow miraculously change from what is displayed, and, if so, on what basis?

 

No, I haven't missed the point. When a seller lists an item on eBay with a shipping price on it, then the buyer knows that price has to include actual shipping plus actual packaging. That's what eBay says. Yes, he accepts the total displayed price on that basis, and similarly whatever conditions the seller mentions on the listing.

 

However, if that accepted total price includes a shipping price that turns out to be significantly higher than the actual shipping price, then of course the buyer now has a valid complaint about the high price he was charged. He accepted it on false pretences because he erroneously believed it was the cost of shipping. He does not have to accept the condition imposed by the seller that they can seriously overcharge on shipping, unless the seller says something like "I'm going to charge everyone $90 for shipping even though I know it will only cost $30" on the listing. Then the buyer is in possession of the full facts before he bids.

[FriendAmos]

  On 8/13/2017 at 10:24 PM, Chrissy said:

 

No, I haven't missed the point. When a seller lists an item on eBay with a shipping price on it, then the buyer knows that price has to include actual shipping plus actual packaging. That's what eBay says. Yes, he accepts the total displayed price on that basis, and similarly whatever conditions the seller mentions on the listing.

 

However, if that accepted total price includes a shipping price that turns out to be significantly higher than the actual shipping price, then of course the buyer now has a valid complaint about the high price he was charged. He accepted it on false pretences because he erroneously believed it was the cost of shipping. He does not have to accept the condition imposed by the seller that they can seriously overcharge on shipping, unless the seller says something like "I'm going to charge everyone $90 for shipping even though I know it will only cost $30" on the listing. Then the buyer is in possession of the full facts before he bids.

 

 

You are still missing the point. Let me try again and in one sentence: there is a "shipping price" displayed, and anyone who enters an auction agrees to pay that price. That's it.

 

As to your claim of buyer's expectation and how it might be connected to, say, "accepted it on false pretences because he erroneously believed it was the cost of shipping", you might as well be arguing that those who advertise "free shipping" actually have no shipping costs.

[FriendAmos]

  On 8/13/2017 at 4:11 PM, sketchstack said:

 

If they charge more for postage than it actually costs then those aren't "shipping prices".

 

Not really. First of all, at a certain level, they are "shipping prices" simply because they are what are displayed as "shipping prices". Second, it is always understood that nominal "shipping prices" are not just the actual cost of postage but will also include materials, handling, etc.

[sketchstack]

  On 8/13/2017 at 11:42 PM, FriendAmos said:

 

Not really. First of all, at a certain level, they are "shipping prices" simply because they are what are displayed as "shipping prices". Second, it is always understood that nominal "shipping prices" are not just the actual cost of postage but will also include materials, handling, etc.

 

It doesn't make sense that they are including actual "handling" fees. As seen in the sampling pasted below (from my own post a while back), the fees are random and arbitrary. And I'll preemptively answer a possible follow up: No, the shipping costs have no correlation with the value/price of the pen.

 

 

-----

 

• $79.90
• Free
• $28.00
• $49.90
• $14.90
• $69.90

-----

[Theroc]

  On 8/13/2017 at 9:58 PM, FriendAmos said:

 

How exactly are they being untruthful? They show certain shipping prices, and they ship at those prices. Seems pretty truthful to me.

 

I don't think buyers should get too worked up that Martemodena is hurting themselves. That might not be their view, and it is in any case their problem.

 

Nobody I've read so far is getting worked up, I certainly haven't.

I stated earlier in the same post that

 

  On 8/13/2017 at 5:49 PM, Theroc said:

 

as long as the buyer receives the item they bought in the condition described for what they agreed to pay (S&H included), the buyer is not being cheated.

 

As to how they are being untruthful:

They have, over time, charged $30, $40, $50, $70 and $80 for the same shipping service for the same pen.

They can't all be the TRUE shipping and handling cost, can they?

[FriendAmos]

  On 8/14/2017 at 1:07 AM, Theroc said:

 

As to how they are being untruthful:

They have, over time, charged $30, $40, $50, $70 and $80 for the same shipping service for the same pen.

They can't all be the TRUE shipping and handling cost, can they?

 

Why can't they be? Is there any reason to believe or expect that their costs for materials and handling will stay constant over time? Or, keeping in mind that they might have "volume-discount" agreements with shippers, that the shipper will always charge the same rates?

[FriendAmos]

  On 8/14/2017 at 12:26 AM, sketchstack said:

 

It doesn't make sense that they are including actual "handling" fees. As seen in the sampling pasted below (from my own post a while back), the fees are random and arbitrary. And I'll preemptively answer a possible follow up: No, the shipping costs have no correlation with the value/price of the pen.

 

 

-----

 

• $79.90
• Free
• $28.00
• $49.90
• $14.90
• $69.90

-----

 

Yes, I saw that a while ago. At the time I asked a question that you never answered. Perhaps you want to start there before the recycling?

 

Also, have you considered that a seller might be willing to take a "loss" on the shipping (i.e. "subsidize" it) if they expect to do well on the "item price" and that they might do so to varying degrees (and with varying shipping prices). Or do you, say, believe that "Free" really means that it costs the seller nothing?

Edited August 14, 2017 by FriendAmos

[Theroc]

  On 8/14/2017 at 1:48 AM, FriendAmos said:

 

Why can't they be? Is there any reason to believe or expect that their costs for materials and handling will stay constant over time? Or, keeping in mind that they might have "volume-discount" agreements with shippers, that the shipper will always charge the same rates?

 

There is certainly no reason to believe that S&H will remain constant over time.

However, itdoes not increase at a rate of 200% annually.

Furthermore, MM have, on occasion (like RIGHT NOW), multiple listings of the same pen at auction during the same week with some listings charging $14.90 S&H and others charging $49.90. The ones with $14.90 S&H have a reserve price, the ones with $49.90 S&H do not.

The only reasonable explanation is that for the latter, their reserve price is built into S&H, which is not the place for it. Its Shipping & Handling, not Shipping & Handling & Reserve Price.

I really look forward to reading how you will counter this.