Italic Handwriting with regular fountain pens

[Free Citizen]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/FreeCitizen/msg04112601.jpg

[Titivillus]

  James Pickering said:

  Tytyvyllus said:

A quick sample of my handwriting

Thank you for the contribution. We all benefit and learn from observing each other's handwriting. Anyone else with a contribution?

 

James

Looking at the scan I really need to do it again using a 'photo' function since it looks like a fax! Might just have to do it with my Esterbrook dip pens when the Xmas cards come out.

 

Kurt H

[James Pickering]

  KendallJ said:

In general the concepts that others have given I believe are correct: legibility and comfort. However, handwriting is also unique and personal. To me a personal hand done exactly according to a particular form looks immature. Only when you are able to modify it to make it yours does it build up character.

In developing or adapting any writing hand it is important to first concentrate on producing well formed letters, both majuscules (Capitals or upper case) and minuscules (small or lower case), with precision and consistency -- the essential forms of the letters as Edward Johnston expressed it. You cannot deviate too much from the basic letter forms that the general population is familiar with without degrading legibility. Individual style is incorporated after the basic letter forms have been well learned. The goal is to produce finely crafted letters and a unique, individual writing style at everyday writing speed. The letter forms may not be as pretty as when written slowly and deliberately, but they will still possess a basic loveliness and be eminently readable.

 

  Quote

James, I wonder what you think of the Sasoon book "Teach yourself better handwriting" ..........

I like that book, Kendall, and the other books she has produced especially "The Practical Guide to Children's Handwriting".

 

James

[James Pickering]

  Free Citizen said:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/FreeCitizen/msg04112601.jpg

Thank you for that excellent exemplar, Lim. And for Kurt: I agree with Lim that your regular (fine nib) handwriting is quite elegant and eminently readable.

 

Your Block letters (Majuscules or Capitals) are handsome and very clear, Lim, and your italic handwriting is really beginning to flourish. As you point out, Italic writing rendered with round point writing instruments (regular fountain pens, ballpoint/rollerball pens, pencils, etc.) lacks some of the character and flair -- panache, if you will -- of that rendered using edged nib pens and that is mainly due to the absence of the thicks and thins of the letter forms naturally produced by edged nibs.

 

James

[JDShaffer]

This is s fun thread. I really enjoy seeing everyone's handwriting!

Here's a sample of my "new" handwriting, with lots of thanks due to Mr. Pickering (one day I'll scare you with a sample of my "normal" handwriting!)

 

http://www.osaka-gu.ac.jp/php/jds/misc/sample1.jpg

[Free Citizen]

  JDShaffer said:

(one day I'll scare you with a sample of my "normal" handwriting!)

Bring it on! It can't be worse than mine. Since you like Calligraphy pen so much, you might like to look at what Manuscript and Osmiroid have to offer. They are cheaper than Sheaffer but writes like a dream. James' favourite, the rotring Artpens are equally good and gives a good balance due to its barrel design. Very much like that of a dip pen holder. Speaking of which, you should also look into dip pens. Aside from having to dip after every line, it works very well and changing colour doesn't get any easier. Maybe one of these days, James may give us a course on how to cut a Quill

[JDShaffer]

Thanks for the reply, Free Citizen. I'll scare you some day soon with my normal writing. But for now I'll have to do a little typing, I have to get back to work here in a bit...

 

I'm actually looking forward to getting a Lamy Safari and then swapping out the iridium nib for a 1.1mm italic nib. :-) I have heard good things about the Lamy and I would like to give it a try. I plan on toating it around everywhere I go, so I wanted something not too expensive and can take a slight beating (well, not the nib, that is!)

 

I have 1 dip pen in my collection, a present from my wife, but she didn't know what to get me and got me an illustrator's dip pen with an EXTRA FINE nib... and I mean it writes about the width of a hair! A little too difficult to write with. I do play with illustrating once in a while, but not much these days... too busy.

 

I HAVE been on the lookout for about a 0.9mm or a 1.1mm nib to put in the dip pen holder as I already have ink and everything, though I'm not sure what would make a nice nib...

 

Well, back to work! :blink:

 

Jeffrey

[James Pickering]

  Free Citizen said:

  JDShaffer said:

(one day I'll scare you with a sample of my "normal" handwriting!)

Bring it on! It can't be worse than mine. Since you like Calligraphy pen so much, you might like to look at what Manuscript and Osmiroid have to offer. They are cheaper than Sheaffer but writes like a dream. James' favourite, the rotring Artpens are equally good and gives a good balance due to its barrel design. Very much like that of a dip pen holder. Speaking of which, you should also look into dip pens. Aside from having to dip after every line, it works very well and changing colour doesn't get any easier. Maybe one of these days, James may give us a course on how to cut a Quill

Ah, Jeffrey, no one will be scared! I think it is healthy and instructive to post early exemplars of your writing hands -- you will be amazed at the improvement when you look back on them as you progress and your writing matures.

 

Lim is correct regarding Manuscript & Osmiroid fountain pens for everyday handwriting. He is also correct in observing that I particularly like Rotring Art pens for their balance and the shape of their shafts which, along with their nib profiles, I find so reminiscent of "dip" pens and, in some ways, hand cut quills. The only problem with them for me is that their length makes them unhandy for pocket carrying -- but I tolerate that little inconvenience.

 

There have been quite a few very interesting postings this evening and I wish I had time to respond to all of them right now -- but it is getting late and I must go to bed for we have to be up early in the morning for a long drive to Phoenix. It is my youngest daughter's birthday and I am going to spend the day with her and my grandchildren -- away from a computer I am afraid, so I will not have anymore input until tomorrow evening -- I will devote time to cutting and preparing quills at that time, Lim.

 

Let me take this opportunity to thank everyone who contributed to Penmanship this evening -- I will respond to those postings tomorrow evening when I return.

 

Addenda:

 

I like your latest exemplar, Jeffrey -- very clean and readable. I think you are on the right track with your Lamy choice -- the .9 mm nib should be ideal. I will talk more about "dip" pens tomorrow. I revisited your exemplars, Lim -- your writing has real grace and flair. I don't mean to slight anybody's efforts -- I will address them all ASAP.

 

James

Edited November 30, 2004 by James Pickering

[JDShaffer]

Well, I managed to dig up an example of my "Normal" handwriting. Sorry for the quality of the photograph, but I believe it's still good enough to give you an idea of what I used to write like (and still do if I'm not careful!)

 

Don't laugh too hard!

 

Jeffrey

 

http://www.osaka-gu.ac.jp/php/jds/misc/bad-example.jpg

 

 

UPDATE: I changed the "photograph" to a scanned image. Though perhaps it's not much better!

Edited November 30, 2004 by JDShaffer

[Free Citizen]

I am not laughing, but the image is too small for me to make out the writing. But it looks reasonable in the legibility stakes. Do you have a scanner in your office you could use? BTW, what is the name of your dip pen set. Mine is made by Nikko of Japan. It is a budget set but that is the only one I could find for the moment. I will hunt for a better one this weekend I hope.

[Keith with a capital K]

I always likened my old writing to that of an epileptic monkey on speed but think that after much practice my quickly jotted notes aren't too shabby...

 

http://members.shaw.ca/feynn/stuff/ebrown.jpg

 

I'll submit a little of my more formal writing and everyday handwriting a little later... I aggravated the arthritis in my hand by using one of those infernal ballpoints today as I was filling out forms.

 

Yes... I actually left home without a real pen this morning.

Edited November 30, 2004 by Keith with a capital K

[JDShaffer]

Ok, I changed the photograh of my BAD handwriting to a scanned image, though it looks about the same. This is really due to my BAD handwriting! I always write small and cramped and fast. It's very illedgible, even to me at times! Thus the urge to improve my writing!

 

Jeffrey (just getting to work) <_<

[James Pickering]

I have finally got on to my daughter's computer. As we progress in this topic, I do want to steer the focus back to Italic Handwriting using regular -- "out of the box" iridium tipped nib -- fountain pens.

 

I believe it is quite feasible to produce really good Italic writing using such pens by employing the correct techniques. I will scan some appropriate exemplars when I return home and post them accompanied by supporting text.

 

To all who are currently posting writing exemplars here -- keep up the good work and concentrate on producing well structured letter forms!

 

James

[James Pickering]

The following exemplar continues the theme that beautiful and elegant Italic handwriting can be produced using regular "out of the box" fountain pens:

 

http://www.jp29.org/cal103.jpg

 

The following photograph shows me completing the preceding exemplar. A few informational notes: I write with fountain pens "unposted" (except when using my mother's diminutive "Lady Swan"), holding the cap in my left hand as depicted. The other fountain pens shown (laying next to the paper pad) are a 1938 Mabie Todd "Swan" (#2 nib) and two Rotring Art pens (.8 mm nibs) with convertors. One Rotring pen was loaded with Waterman red ink -- the other three with Waterman black ink. These were the four pens I carried with me to Phoenix yesterday. The photograph of me writing at their kitchen table was taken by my grandson, Brian.

 

http://www.jp29.org/cal104.JPG

 

Although excellent Italic handwriting can be rendered using fountain pens with regular iridium tipped nibs, the nuanced character of the writing exemplified by the thick and thin letter line variation produced by edged nibs is absent as shown by the following exemplar:

 

http://www.jp29.org/cal106.jpg

 

The above exemplar was rendered using a Rotring Art pen with a .8 mm edged nib using Waterman ink on Rhodia paper.

[James Pickering]

I want to point out that a light pen hold and an easy, relaxed, writing style are essential when rendering Italic letter forms using regular iridium tipped nib fountain pens. More on this later.

 

James

[Free Citizen]

  JDShaffer said:

UPDATE: I changed the "photograph" to a scanned image. Though perhaps it's not much better!

A scan of written words is always better than a photograph. But is still a tad small. I believe there is only one word I cannot identify. I attribute this to the small image than anything else.

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/FreeCitizen/msg04120101.jpg

 

This transcript was rendered with a Sailor Super Script Calligraphy Pen with supplied Sailor black ink cartridge. You will notice the variation in line width because I was interrupted during the transcript.

[Free Citizen]

  James Pickering said:

The above exemplar was rendered using a Rotring Art pen with a .8 mm edged nib using Waterman ink on Rhodia paper.

James, the second exemplar is so much better. The 0.8 mm edged nib would be equivalent to a Fine for a Manuscript or Osmiroid? BTW, that is a nice pic of you taken by your grandson. Interestingly, that is how I hold my caps too

[JDShaffer]

Mr. Pickering -- Wonderful examples, as always. I believe I will try writing out the first one once I get into the office tomorrow. It's already late here this evening (10:30p in Japan!) So I'm not able to work on a "test" tonight, though it looks excitingly fun!

 

I discovered a few things yesterday that made a nice little improvement in my iridium-tipped adventures into italic writing... (a) I learned that if I write on a small stack of papers instead of a desk, I have more control. I'm guessing this is because the papers act somewhat like a pillow and provide a little feedback to the pen (not quite as exaggerated, but similar to trying to write into a fluffy pillow with a spoon). And (, if I alter my normal grip so that I move the pen up to rest against the joint of my middle finger (instead of just below the joint) I gain more control over the pen.

 

But these discoveries also lead me to some unhappy discoveries. I am not writing from the shoulder (I tried and it was very bad!) I'm writing mostly from my wrist and fingers. I suspect this is from years and years of training to play lead guitar where either finger-picking or fast-accurate picking have left me with considerable fine-motor control in my wright hand and wrist. Hmm. Perhaps I can work with it??

 

 

 

Free Citizen -- Wow! That sure is weird to see my own words in someone else's hand! I'm quite impressed you can read it! Ha! THe word you missed was "Erdos", Pronounced "air-dish." He was a brilliant, yet very VERY strange mathematician. Lots of phobias and quirks. Very impressive, however! Perhaps I should try re-rendering that same page with my new found italic hand?? Hmm! UPDATE: Ok, I did rewrite this page. I'll post it tomorrow when I can scan it. I was finishing it up when I felt a small earthquake. *shiver* I HATE earthquakes!

 

 

Well, that's all for tonight. Time for bed... it's up at 5:30a again tomorrow...

 

Cheers,

Jeffrey

 

PS -- Mr. Pickering, in one of your exemplars (on your website) you mentioned writing a letter to your wife every day. I thought that was so wonderful that I started doing the same, much to my wife's delight. I'm also quite happy with the idea as I not only get a chance to make my wife smile a little bit more every morning, but I get to practice writing!

Edited December 1, 2004 by JDShaffer

[JDShaffer]

Here's the formentioned "re-write" using italic handwriting with my iridium-nibbed FP...

 

http://www.osaka-gu.ac.jp/php/jds/misc/better-bad-example.jpg

 

Hmm.. slightly better than before.

Jds

Edited December 1, 2004 by JDShaffer

[Free Citizen]

  JDShaffer said:

Hmm.. slightly better than before.

Jds

It definitely is