Kaigelu 316 Modification (250 #6 Bock Nib / Beaufort Ink Converter)

[Karmachanic]

Purchased a Kaigelu 316 and came across this thread. Did the hot water thing and the feed/nib came out easily. The housing did not budge and I don't have the tools or conditions to remove it that way.

 

I read that someone replaced the existing nib with a #6. I tried a JOWO 1.1 but the nib dripped big time. Even with a Jinhao converter. Works just fine with a Jinhao F nib and Kaigelu converter and the Jinhao nib is smooth. I'd like to go the Bock route for better nib choise and ease of changeing said nibs

 

I read of melting the housing with acetone in the thread below. Any comments/ insights before I try this?

 

Thanks!

[Frank66]

Hi, I am not a pen expert myself, but I would definitely suggest to stay away from using acetone to remove the nib housing from the pen section, as acetone may ruin the acrylic of the pen.

 

What I would suggest is to try immersing the pen section ONLY alternatively, for a few minutes each time, in very hot and ice cold water, for 5-6 consecutive times. This sudden temperature change should be more than enough to soften the glue between the plastic nib unit and the metal pen section. Very hot water is good, but boiling water may damage the gold plating of the metal ring of the pen section, so kindly be aware. Once you do this, you may use a narrow hollow instrument inside the pen section in order to push the nib unit out towards the tip of the pen (or in other words push in the direction opposite to the barrel). I used the hollow plastic cover of a hypodermic needle that could fit inside the pen section for that purpose, but you can use whatever other instrument you may choose.

 

If you are willing to try a Bock unit, first I would make sure you have one available and also a corresponding converter alongside, as the kaigelu converter will not fit the Bock unit. I ordered both my components from BeaufortInk in the UK, not affiliated, but depending on where you live, you may choose someone closer to you.

 

Believe me, you cannot even imagine what a great new fountain pen you will have after you do this modification. The new pen will be totally reliable, it will be ready to write even if the pen has not been used for months, and you will be able to choose/change between different nib sizes, finishes and alloys (Bock EF, F, M, B, XB, calligraphy italics 1.1, 1.5, 1.9 mm, stubs, steel nibs, gold nibs, palladium nibs, semi-flexible titanium nibs - which are my favorites-, the possibilities are almost endless and fascinating. To me, the new pen is equivalent to pens worth hundreds of dollars more...

 

Hope this helps, let me know if I can be of any more assistance.

Edited March 3, 2018 by Frank66

[Karmachanic]

Thank you Frank, for your guidance and offer of assistance. The advice to "shock" the housing glue with hot/cold will be followed., Please tell me why the pushing instrument cannot be solid. It's not like I care about the existing feed.

 

No access to hypo needle cover, but I might be able to come up with a suitably sized piece of copper pipe.

 

The acetone idea comes from "synerr" in this thread:
https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/326142-jinhao-x750-nib-housing-removal/

 

Of course I would remove the nib and feed, as well as the pen barrel, and just submerge the section.

 

I am living in the UK at present. I'll wait until I sucessfully remove the housing before ordering the Bock nib/unit.

 

Looking forward to sharing your joyful 316 experience!

Edited March 4, 2018 by kd3

[Frank66]

Hi kd3! If you don't care much about keeping the existing Kaigelu nib unit, you can use any kind of solid instrument to push it out, like for instance a screwdriver. Personally I try to salvage everything, so I used a hollow instrument. You can use a small copper pipe instead, like the ones used in kit pens. I remember BeaufortInk had similar copper tubes for their kit pens, and they are relatively inexpensive. A seven mm in diameter tube would work fine, and since you live in the UK, if you care you can order one when you place your order for the Bock nib unit and the ink converter: http://www.beaufortink.co.uk/pentubes.html There are, of course, pen knockout blocks, but they are more expensive, I do not think they are needed for this mod.

 

My experience is that after the cold and hot water shock, you can twist the nib unit left and right and it will come loose from the section. In my pens, there was not much glue between the section and the nib housing, so it was relatively easy, again I must have bought my pens 2-3 years ago. Sorry not much experience with the acetone, thanks though for the relevant link.

 

My photobucket photoes describing the pen modification process are currently missing from this thread, but I still have them available. Perhaps it would be a good idea if I could re-post them so that everybody could see them again, I just do not know how to get about doing this...

 

Looking forward to sharing your experience with us. Keep us posted, if you wish. Take good care.

[Karmachanic]

Thank you Frank for yoyr continued support. I've managed to easily get the nib and feed out using hot water. I have ordered a 5mm ink syringe and will give that at try along with hot/cold when it arrives. That you for the 7mm tube link. I will try that if the 5mm does not work.

 

I live simply on a very modest pension. So I will wait until I have sucessfuly removed the housing before ordering the Bock nib and converter.

 

Hope you manage to repost the images. Many people would benfit. As a new member I do not have full access as yet, but I believe one can upload directly in a post. I will try to also post images once I have made progress .

[Karmachanic]

I've just discovered some ancient technology that everyone probebaly already knows about. The knock out block! Something that make Kaigelu 316 nib housing modification a breeze:

http://www.penpractice.com/page3.html

[Karmachanic]

 

 

Thank you Frank for leading the way, and for all your help and input.

 

Original housing was a tight friction fit and came out easily. And now I have my first Beaufort Bock nib. Today I also received some of the accoutrement needed to venture in to grinding nibs myself. O.5 cursive italic coming right up!

In a month or several. We'll see.

[Frank66]

  On 3/8/2018 at 9:42 AM, kd3 said:

I've just discovered some ancient technology that everyone probebaly already knows about. The knock out block! Something that make Kaigelu 316 nib housing modification a breeze:

http://www.penpractice.com/page3.html

 

Knockout block is nice to have, I do not think that they are needed for this pen modification though, as nib housing is relatively easy to remove from the 316 pen section.

[Frank66]

  On 3/14/2018 at 12:38 PM, kd3 said:

_X1T1139.jpg

 

Thank you Frank for leading the way, and for all your help and input.

 

Original housing was a tight friction fit and came out easily. And now I have my first Beaufort Bock nib. Today I also received some of the accoutrement needed to venture in to grinding nibs myself. O.5 cursive italic coming right up!

In a month or several. We'll see.

 

Wow, excellent pen, looking good, thanks for sharing with us.

 

Can you confide with us how you like your pen with the new nib? What nib size is this? Looks like a F to me. Don't you find Bock nibs are a little springier compared to other nibs?

 

As far as the 0.5mm cursive italic is concerned, you are far better than me in this realm. I seldom dare grind my nibs anymore, especially my good ones as Bock are, I am usually happy with them out of the box.

 

I have exactly one ivory with black swirls Kaigelu 316 pen like yours that I have not modified so far, and is forgotten somewhere in one drawer. You gave me inspiration to modify it like yours, and have three modified Kaigelu pens on my desk, instead of just two.

 

Again congrats on your new pen, and hope you enjoy it much.

Edited March 16, 2018 by Frank66

[Karmachanic]

The Bock F is certainly softer than the JOWOs I have become accustomed to. And, of course, the added benefit of using any #6 nib one wishes. Speaking of any nib, I hope you are still enjoying the Titanium. Perhaps you have read this? http://www.clumsypenman.com/titanium-steel-bock-nibs/ I may get one in the future, once I have improved my penmanship.

 

I have a cache of Jinhao M and F nibs with which to learn grinding. My first effort was yesterday, but I took it too far. Part of the learning process. I'll try again tomorrow. I have a fine cursive italic, a fine italic, a 0.6 and a 1.1, all JOWO, all of which I have shaped a little. There is still a place (small) in my collection for one or two round nibs, but I find I do prefer the added character of an italic/stub.

 

Once I have had more practice, and have gained some confidence, I will work on Bocks. If I feel the need for something exotic I will ask Pablo @ fpnibs.

 

I do very much enjoy the pearl/black. I doubt that that paying 25 times more for a similar vintage Duofold would bring 25 times the enjoyment. Thought the nib might be softer. Having said that, if you know someone who wants to give me a vintage Duofold flat top, I'll happily accept it!

Edited March 16, 2018 by kd3

[Frank66]

  On 3/16/2018 at 5:43 PM, kd3 said:

The Bock F is certainly softer than the JOWOs I have become accustomed to. And, of course, the added benefit of using any #6 nib one wishes. Speaking of any nib, I hope you are still enjoying the Titanium. Perhaps you have read this? http://www.clumsypenman.com/titanium-steel-bock-nibs/ I may get one in the future, once I have improved my penmanship.

 

I have a cache of Jinhao M and F nibs with which to learn grinding. My first effort was yesterday, but I took it too far. Part of the learning process. I'll try again tomorrow. I have a fine cursive italic, a fine italic, a 0.6 and a 1.1, all JOWO, all of which I have shaped a little. There is still a place (small) in my collection for one or two round nibs, but I find I do prefer the added character of an italic/stub.

 

Once I have had more practice, and have gained some confidence, I will work on Bocks. If I feel the need for something exotic I will ask Pablo @ fpnibs.

 

I do very much enjoy the pearl/black. I doubt that that paying 25 times more for a similar vintage Duofold would bring 25 times the enjoyment. Thought the nib might be softer. Having said that, if you know someone who wants to give me a vintage Duofold flat top, I'll happily accept it!

 

Thanks for sharing the article about the "Titanium and steel Bock nibs" from the The Clumsy Penman's InKfusion Site. This is a very interesting site with lots of articles about nice pens, inks and related stationery, I was not aware of this blog, so I subscribed to their mailing list, thank you very much.

As far as the above mentioned article per se is concerned, it accurately represents my own experience with both Ti and steel Bock nibs. I would recommend anyone who would like to purchase a Bock nib (either titanium or steel or whatever) to go through this article first, the text and the pictures there are the most authentic description of the Bock nibs I can recall coming across.

I believe part of the joy of using a fountain pen is to be able to alter the writing experience between different fountain pens, nibs and inks. Most of the time, I find joy in alternating in my daily rotation pens with a fine stiff nib, an italic nib and a semi-flexible nib.

Now I only have two pens with semi-flexible nibs, the one is my Kaigelu 316 with the Titanium nib, and another is a Jinhao 159 retrofitted with an Ahab semi-flexible nib. Truth is that I also have an FPR semi-flexible nib pen, it was one of my first semi-flexible nibs, but I seldom use it nowadays, for reasons that have nothing to do with the pen or the nib. Anyway, what I meant to say is that, in my own humble opinion, the Bock Ti nib is substantially far easier to flex that the Ahab and FPR semi flexible nibs. Also, I would describe the Ti nib as softer, mushier and less springy compared to the other two.

It is no surprise that, of my 3 Kaigelu 316s, I mostly enjoy writing with the one with Titanium nib.

Sorry kd3, no parts for a Duofold in my drawers, although I have to admit it is a magnificent pen, but for what it is worth, what is nice about the 316 is that you can easily exchange several nibs. Once you are willing to try, and this is not that hard at all.

Edited March 18, 2018 by Frank66

[Frank66]

A few people have inquired for writing samples and how the Bock nibs in the Kaigelu compare with other nibs. Please bear with me, I do not claim to be a pen expert, I am just a pen hobbyist, and I am also not a calligrapher at all. I believe all pens and nibs are good in their own way, and I also hold true that what you write is more important than what you are writing with. Still some pens are better than others for certain people and once you use fountain pens it is difficult to go back to ballpoint pens for most of us. So here are a few pics:

 

Bock EF steel

 

Bock EF titanium

 

Bock EF titanium - reverse writing

 

Bock EF Vs Jowo EF steel (close-up view, some flair can be exerted with the Bock nib if some pressure is exerted).

Other people have commented on Bock steel nibs being springier than Jowo too. Both nibs are great, however, I am sorry that no picture can show the difference in tactile feel when using both nibs. Both nibs can write with a very light touch, however, I find that when you apply a little more pressure, Bock steel can exert some line variation, which is commendable for a steel nib. Still, I accept the fact that some people may like the more monoline writing of the Jowo nib, and this is fine, I myself like it sometimes too, but it is always nice to be able to change between pens with different nibs.

 

No affiliation with aforementioned products and vendors, although I do have to say that I highly appreciate their effort and toil to help all of us fountain pen users.

Edited March 24, 2018 by Frank66

[Frank66]

This is a quick scriblble with my K 316 with the Titanium bock nib. The pen always resides on my desk. It has been some time since the initial post, but I hope some people have found it useful. Thanks for keeping this thread alive.

 

Edited December 7, 2018 by Frank66

[DiveDr]

This pen and the original nib housing work well with a Jinhao 159 feed unit and either a Knox 5 or 6 nib. There is no need to remove the nib housing for this conversion. The Jinhao feed ink channels provide more flow than the original and the Knox nib is much smoother and flexible than stock. The stock nib on my copy was terrible, scratchy and dry. Could not make it write well no matter what I did. This is a great thread, thanks to all for all the information.

[Frank66]

  On 1/4/2020 at 8:33 PM, DiveDr said:

This pen and the original nib housing work well with a Jinhao 159 feed unit and either a Knox 5 or 6 nib. There is no need to remove the nib housing for this conversion. The Jinhao feed ink channels provide more flow than the original and the Knox nib is much smoother and flexible than stock. The stock nib on my copy was terrible, scratchy and dry. Could not make it write well no matter what I did. This is a great thread, thanks to all for all the information.

DiveDr, man thanks for your kind words. I agree with you about the J159 feed, feeds are as important as the nibs IMHO. Knox nibs I have not tried yet, I have only heard good words about them, so I am very tempted to order a few, the only reason that has prevented me in the past is shipping to my country which can cost more than the actual nibs. At present, 2 of my K316 have Bock nibs and housings, one steel and one titanium EF nibs. My third K316 is fitted with a wing sung nib from my Wing Sung 699 amber pen which is a copy of the Pilot custom 823. The WS 699 nib is exactly the same dimensions as the K316 nib, a couple of millimeters shorter than the standard #6 Jowo or Bock nib which are 35 mm long. An EF jowo #6 nib shortened at iits base by 2mm is fitted in the WS 699 at present and the K316 pen is fitted with the WS 699 oem nib. Here is a writing sample with my kaigelu:

 

 

 

 

Sorry for the torrent of quotes, i just did not know which one to choose so I add them all. I guess next time I will be more laconic.

Edited January 6, 2020 by Frank66

[DiveDr]

Frank, cool pens and great quotes! The Knox nibs are a fine German product, extremely smoothe, sometimes too smoothe with baby bottom. A little micromesh and a 1 micron polish and they are the bomb!

[sansenri]

I own two Kaigelu 316, which I have used often, since even the Kaigelu nibs did not really seem so bad after a treatment with micromesh.

Recently I found out that the glue that holds in place the nib collar has dried out on one of them and the nib group just comes out clean from the section if I unscrew the converter.

It would seem that whilst the section is threaded and the collar is not, what screws into the section threads is the threaded converter!

Anyhow, suggestions on this thread I had read several times (Thank you, Frank66!) immediately came to mind, so I set out to get myself a spare Bock nib group and fitting converter (I needed a few spare Bock nibs anyway).

Said and done.

 

the nib collar with the dried out glue

 

as Frank says, the Bock collar fits straight into the section and stays there tight, but not overtight! amazing...

 

The pen after the mod.
I had not realized, but in writing the difference vs the (much stiffer) Kaigelu nib is notable!

 

The weight of the finial does not really bother me, after a short while I get used to it.
The pen feels much improved! Thank you, Frank! (the other 316 might be receiving similar treatment soon )

[WJM]

I currently have three 316s with stock Kaigelu nibs

 

(I had one with Bock nib, but it got damaged; I bought a new one in which I couldn't remove the housing, and I didn't want to destroy the pen by forcing it).

 

Also I have a Wing Sung 626 with Kaigelu nib - the stock Wing Sung nib was very flimsy. Are these new Wing Sung nibs any better? I would gladly have one of my 316s with a finer nib.

 

[Emver]

The316 is new to me but I love it. I particularly like the extra weight, and they seem to be available with a choice of nib sizes.

For me, anything less than a 0.7mm is just too spidery, so the M standard is fine. Very smooth too.

I have a couple of Jinhao 100s which is another pen I like, but one has a fine nib so I never use it,

The same goes for my Parker collection - the only ones I like using are the ones with nice wet medium or broad nibs.