Kaigelu 316 Modification (250 #6 Bock Nib / Beaufort Ink Converter)

[Frank66]

- Thanks Gary, I checked diamine ink UK web site and they deliver for £3 in Europe. It is worth it for more than 3 bottles of 30ml ink or a gift set of 10 inks, their price and quality seem very competitive.

- As far as the Nemosine 0.6 mm stub is concerned, it seems to be out of stock in most pen places I checked too. However, I have received an email from Josh from www.Nemosine.com stating that ".6 nibs are currently in production in Germany and they are anticipating their completion in May". It is worth the wait for me.

Many Thanks, Photios

Edited March 15, 2016 by Frank66

[garyc]

I've now converted the second of my 316's and installed a Bock #6 Fine nib. Removal of the Kaigelu nib housing was just as troublesome as the first. On first fitting and dip testing the F nib, I found it a bit rough and 'noisy' on the paper so set about it with the micromesh. Initially I made matters worse by significantly flattening the tip and broadening the line, but I managed to rescue it and it's now too bad now, perhaps a bit broader line than the original but a little bit smoother.

 

I also realised that I hadn't installed the Beaufort converter on the first, but in taking the pen into the kitchen I managed to drop it on the wooden floor. The replacement finial sheared at the brass ring (brass ring and final in one part, the barrel and reamins of the finial embedded in the barrel in the other. I glued them together (superglue) and all seemed well until today when I checked the converter for ink and managed to squirt a quantity of ink on my hand and the desk when I screwed the barrel back up. It seems the end of the converter was catching on the finial and gettng screwed in by the action of screwing on the barrel. Now sure if this was a result of the re-glued finial not being lined up exactly, but i ended up hacksawing about 5mm off the end of the converter and it seems to be possible to screw and unscrew the barrel without simultaneously unscrewing/screwing the converter.

 

The second 316 doesn't seem to be affected by this, but it's maybe something to look for if using the replacement finial and the Beaufort converter.

[Flounder]

lol - so you inadvertently created a Conway Stewart style captive converter!

[Dickkooty2]

  On 3/24/2016 at 3:04 PM, garyc said:

 

... but in taking the pen into the kitchen I managed to drop it on the wooden floor.

 

... I checked the converter for ink and managed to squirt a quantity of ink on my hand and the desk when I screwed the barrel back up.

 

... i ended up hacksawing about 5mm off the end of the converter

 

 

Whew ... what a day!

 

A tribute ...

[garyc]

  On 3/24/2016 at 6:11 PM, Dickkooty2 said:

Whew ... what a day!

 

A tribute ...

 

Sqto! (Smiles quietly to oneself). An uncle was in the Gordon Highlanders, he was also a little unlucky - spent 4 years in a POW camp in WWII. But he survived this mishap, as I did mine. ;-)

[Frank66]

Although no problem should be anticipated using the beaufort converter with the Kaigelu 316 pens when the original barrel finial is in place, Gary recently shared his experience of using the Beaufort ink converter in his Kaigelu pen that had already had the original brass barrel finial replaced with a plastic one, as suggested by Richard in his thread found here ( https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/245065-kaigelu-316-acrylic-barrel-finial/)

The truth is that I have not done the barrel finial replacement myself to decrease the weight of my Kaigelu. However, in looking into this procedure details, I formed the impression that the barrel end of the original Kaigelu finial has an internal recess, in other words is hollowed inside up to several millimeters, possibly to accommodate the converter knob. This is confirmed also by the CAD drawing of the original Kaigelu finial submitted by Richard here ( http://https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/206822-kaigelu-316-charcoal/ ) which shows a recess of 16 mm in length and 6 mm in diameter, presumably to accommodate part of the knob of the converter. This was also shown in the clinical photographs of the removed brass finial posted by Flounder and Richard found here ( https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/232530-kaigelu-316-accidental-disassembly-photos/ ) .

The Beaufort converter is slightly longer than the Kaigelu converter by about 5 millimeters, and similarly it's turning knob is wider in diameter by 0.25mm, but this difference is within tolerance and can be accommodated by the internal dimensions of the pen's barrel and the hollow feature of the original Kaigelu finial.

Towards this end, I am presenting a series of component measurements and pictures below. In summary:

Lengths

- Internal Length of the Kaigelu barrel with the original finial = 77mm, measured in both my 2 Kaigelu 316s (includes recess mentioned above)

- Length of the original Kaigelu ink converter = 69 mm

- Length of Beaufort Converter = 74 mm

- Difference in length between the two ink converters = 5 mm

- Length of the recess of original barrel finial = 16 mm (as suggested by Richard drawing in https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/206822-kaigelu-316-charcoal/ )

Diameter

- Kaigelu converter knob diameter = 5.45 mm

- Beaufort converter knob diameter = 5.75 mm

- Internal diameter for original barrel finial = 6 mm (as suggested by Richard drawing in https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/206822-kaigelu-316-charcoal/ )

No problems are anticipated using the Beaufort converter with the pen's original barrel finial. However, for pen owners that have had the finials replaced, there appears to be, as Gary suggested, a slight incompatibility in the sizes of the components involved, that in my mind can be solved as follows:

- If possible, the replacement finial needs to be removed and the hollow feature of the finial accentuated; attention should be paid not to decrease the structural strength of the new plastic finial. Perhaps Richard should be notified so he includes this wider feature in his new, much anticipated, finials. Or

- Shortening of the turning knob of the replacement converter by a few millimeters (around 5 mm should be adequate) is required, as Gary suggested. This could easily be done with a disk in a dremel, and final polish should be done so not to impede the converter esthetics. The functionality of the converter should not be inhibited by this slight modification.

Gary, thanks for sharing your experience with us. I hope this will be useful for people who want to attempt the Kaigelu nib replacement procedure in their pen and have already had their original brass barrel finials replaced with lighter plastic ones.

In conclusion, although slight modifications may be needed for pens with replaced barrel finials, no size incompatibility whatsoever is anticipated with pens that still have their original brass finials in place. Other forum members are welcome to post their experiences here too.

Regards,

Photios

FIGURES

http://i1376.photobucket.com/albums/ah12/phzervas/00CCE4B6-F065-4475-9A34-04F4C8B91C8F_zpsde8yij2a.jpg

Fig 1. Difference in length of original Kaigelu (top) Vs Beaufort (bottom) ink converter.

http://i1376.photobucket.com/albums/ah12/phzervas/D5F8E689-BE69-43F4-A3E9-437DDC3D923B_zpsc6stcicc.jpg

Fig 2. Length of the original Kaigelu ink converter.

http://i1376.photobucket.com/albums/ah12/phzervas/9D809190-637C-46EA-B28D-25CD102084AF_zpsvn8qpowl.jpg

Fig 3. Length of the Beaufort ink converter.

http://i1376.photobucket.com/albums/ah12/phzervas/43EF47DE-A122-48A7-B760-FB35327D1001_zpsk1vsw9px.jpg

Fig 4. Internal length of Kaigelu barrel vis-a-vis the original Kaigelu converter.

http://i1376.photobucket.com/albums/ah12/phzervas/4B0C0399-876F-43AF-A939-AA7F6CC13292_zps7yedth80.jpg

Fig 5. Internal length of Kaigelu barrel vis-a-vis the beaufort converter. No size compatibility problems between components is anticipated when the original Kaigelu barrel cap has not been replaced.

REFERENCES

1. Kaigelu 316 Acrylic Barrel Finial by richardandtracy ( https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/245065-kaigelu-316-acrylic-barrel-finial/ )

2. Kaigelu 316 Charcoal by richardandtracy ( http://https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/206822-kaigelu-316-charcoal/ )

3. Kaigelu 316 Accidental Disassembly Photos by Flounder ( http://https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/232530-kaigelu-316-accidental-disassembly-photos/ )

Edited March 28, 2016 by Frank66

[penwash]

After reading this thread, I was motivated to find the Kaigelu 316 on ebay.

But not really wanting to wait for the pen to arrive from China, I remembered seeing a bunch of obviously China-made pens sold in the US (domestic to me). So I found the seller 'elitejeweller' who has these re-branded pens.

 

One in particular was named "Messina Stormy Yellow" and I believe is a re-branded Kaigelu 316.

 

 

Yes, the cap is black instead of the same as the barrel, but the dimensions match, and the look also matches.

I just inked the pen and wasn't that impressed with the nib performance, but I'll give it a few days for the ink flow to be adjusted to its normal functions.

 

After that, I'm planning to make a stub out of the nib.

 

Thanks for this thread, the pen feels and looks very cool.

[OCArt]

  On 4/3/2016 at 4:48 AM, penwash said:

One in particular was named "Messina Stormy Yellow" and I believe is a re-branded Kaigelu 316..

 

I thought the same thing but that is not the case. The pen you mention has a snap-cap rather than the screw cap of the Kaigelu 316 and the dimensions are slightly different. The cap is very heavy and it does NOT post. The converter does not screw in. Not a bad pen but not a K316.

[Flounder]

Ha, OCart must have quicker eBay-fu skills than me. Yep, the Messina has no barrel threads, and a big ring for a snap cap. Barrel flaws in auction listings aren't a good sign either.

Edited April 3, 2016 by Flounder

[Frank66]

OCArt and Flounder, thank you both for your input.

Penwash, some very nice flex pens, sketches and photographs in your Redeem Pens site, I could not help posting back to comment, congrats. My guess is you can still do the bock replacement in your Messina Stormy Yellow pen, if you need any help comparing its component dimensions with the Kaigelu 316, please let me know.

Warm regards, Photios

[penwash]

  On 4/3/2016 at 5:13 AM, OCArt said:

I thought the same thing but that is not the case. The pen you mention has a snap-cap rather than the screw cap of the Kaigelu 316 and the dimensions are slightly different. The cap is very heavy and it does NOT post. The converter does not screw in. Not a bad pen but not a K316.

Thanks for pointing that out, but I can live with such minor differences for $7.25 shipping included and less than 3 days

I believe the innards are the same as the Kaigelu 316 and all the modification would apply. But even if it's not, it'll be fun tinkering with it.

 

 

  On 4/3/2016 at 5:17 AM, Flounder said:

Ha, OCart must have quicker eBay-fu skills than me. Yep, the Messina has no barrel threads, and a big ring for a snap cap. Barrel flaws in auction listings aren't a good sign either.

I saw the barrel flaw on the ebay photo but it is not present on mine. I think they just picked a bad sample for the photo. Careless, maybe, as much care you can muster for a $7.25 item.

 

What I wonder more is *who* are the target market of these pens? It can't be us, we're too small a number, but who else outside of us FP tinkerers need a cheap fountain pen in today's ballpoint world?

 

 

  On 4/3/2016 at 9:24 AM, Frank66 said:

OCArt and Flounder, thank you both for your input.

 

Penwash, some very nice flex pens, sketches and photographs in your Redeem Pens site, I could not help posting back to comment, congrats. My guess is you can still do the bock replacement in your Messina Stormy Yellow pen, if you need any help comparing its component dimensions with the Kaigelu 316, please let me know.

 

Warm regards, Photios

Thank you Photios, your enthusiasm and detailed photos are rubbing-off on me

I will first attempt to make a kick-butt Stub M nib out of this pen and we'll go from there.

Edited April 3, 2016 by penwash

[scrivelry]

  On 4/3/2016 at 4:48 AM, penwash said:

After reading this thread, I was motivated to find the Kaigelu 316 on ebay.

But not really wanting to wait for the pen to arrive from China, I remembered seeing a bunch of obviously China-made pens sold in the US (domestic to me). So I found the seller 'elitejeweller' who has these re-branded pens.

 

One in particular was named "Messina Stormy Yellow" and I believe is a re-branded Kaigelu 316.

 

 

Yes, the cap is black instead of the same as the barrel, but the dimensions match, and the look also matches.

I just inked the pen and wasn't that impressed with the nib performance, but I'll give it a few days for the ink flow to be adjusted to its normal functions.

 

After that, I'm planning to make a stub out of the nib.

 

Thanks for this thread, the pen feels and looks very cool.

I have both this pen (Or it's pretty near to identical twin in only slightly different color) and the Kaigelu 316.

 

This pen has metal insert barrel threads, which will screw onto the Kaigelu section.

 

The Kaigelu barrel sort of screws on to the section of this one - it seemed to get unhappy towards the end and I did not force it, but I would say the barrels are pretty closing.

 

Eyeing them next to each other, the end piece seems the same as the one on the Kaigelu in size and squinting down the barrel it appears it might be brass. Although this pen would still be heavier than the Kaigelu with the replacement end cap, I suspect that the replacement end bits might fit and reduce the weight by a bit - this is something of an issue for my particular hands. It would concentrate the weight around the barrel threads - not sure if that is a problem or not.

 

The caps do not interchange.

 

I do prefer the Kaigelu 316, and I prefer, I think, the cap to match the barrel although there is precedent for a black cap on a colored pen, if one prefers that, and cares what others think about that, and has noticed that difference.

 

I also have a very similar pen, all in green, with no design at all on the end, and it has a very slgihtly narrower body. It does not taper as much as the 316 and that one also might take the same end bit replacement, but other body parts would not interchange, and the nib in there seems smaller than the one on the Kaigelu and this pen.

 

Of the three, I prefer the Kaigelu 316, especially with the replacement bit, but it comes in only a few colors. If people really like this style of pen and want it in more than that, this one and ones like my green one might appeal.

 

Is anyone else planning to snag nibs from the group buy going on right now to see how they work in the Kaigelu?

 

ETA: Mine seems to be the a variation of the color of this one, and I just ordered the brighter yellow one. I really can't tell if any of the rest of the pens currently up with that seller are acrylic or painted metal barrels.

Edited April 4, 2016 by scrivelry

[penwash]

Okay, this pen's nib has a ball of tipping material. I was able to shape it to give me a good Stub writing characteristics.



I've smooth it some, and I'll use it to write for a few days to see what else I'm going to do to the nib.
But so far I don't really see a compelling reason for swapping the nib.

[Frank66]

penwash,

Nice handwriting, nice ink, nice stub effect, thanks for posting back with these wonderful photos. Like I said, either you learn how to grind your own nibs to perfection and to suit your own needs, or you look for replacement nibs, or both. Can you summarize for us perhaps, the procedure you followed for grinding your nib?

Best regards, Photios

Edited April 6, 2016 by Frank66

[penwash]

Glad you like it, Photios.

 

I use whetstones to grind the nibs.

Over several months I have accumulated different types of whetstone (different coarseness and hardness) that works differently.

 

The nib on this pen was quite soft. I was able to shape it without too much difficulty.

 

Imagine the ball-shaped tipping material, if you want stub characteristic, you want the shape of the tipping material to look like the end of a blunt garden spade, so I usually take the lower side of the ball and flatten it, then invert the pen and take off the upper side of the ball.

 

After getting the stub effect that I'm happy with, I clean up the tines from debris, check and align the tines, and smooth the nib using high-grit mesh (4000 and 9000).

 

That's roughly the process, now, to do this consistent enough, I've practiced with a lot of nibs, so this is not something you can pick up quickly (but you already knew that)

Edited April 6, 2016 by penwash

[Frank66]

Thanks penwash for your reply. If you can, I would appreciate it if you could elaborate a little bit more on the whetstones you are using. Are they sharpening stones like the Arkansas type or diamond files? Could you possibly provide a link?

 

I have had my experimentation with nib grinding, and it is most rewarding, it is as if sharpening a pencil tip but doing this with a fountain pen nib. I have ruined a few inexpensive nibs bought solely for this reason, but the pens I cared about most I think came out quite good. I seldom use Arkansas stone white grit, nowadays I prefer the diamond impregnated diamond hook sharpener, micromesh 1500 to 12000 and mylar paper 3 and 0.5 micron, auto paint sandpaper (500-3000 grit) plus my rotary wheels (carbide, diamond and rubber).and magnification x15 mostly. Most of the times I use a combination of the above armamentarium, as I constantly strive to improve. Most difficult for me is when I try to grind the nib down to EF, and then add flexy features. It is difficult to get smoothness on the upper strokes without rounding off the tines and thus creating a small baby bottoms effect. I need to find time to read further the relevant forum threads on FPN.

 

Lately, to improve my skills, I started roughening the flat surface of the nib on the site opposite to the nib tip and then trying to polish it to a mirror-finish surface using my tools described above. It taught me how to improve my grinding skills using the nibs that I have already destroyed their tips.

 

Best regards,

 

Photios

Edited April 6, 2016 by Frank66

[penwash]

I agree that nib grinding is more like acquired skill through trial and error

 

I also use whetstones designed for sharpening fishing hooks. They are small, not easily worn off, and they seem to shape the nibs in the way that I envision without making the nib surface into that of the moon.

 

The other ones (all of the whetstones I got are from local Estate Sale, so I don't have any link to give) ranges from sponge-looking sharpening stone, to ordinary knife sharpener stone.

 

Now every time I see a ball of tipping material, I want to make a stub nib out of it (hahaha)

[Frank66]

I guess this is a revival of an old post, but I just had to keep my promise.

 

Rewpert posted over in the repair section of the FPN (https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/311497-joining-the-custom-kaigelu-club/?do=findComment&comment=3674413) his own success with his amber Kaigelu 316 nib modification attempt.

 

So, as I congratulatory note to him too, just as I have done to other forum members who have gone through the same process in the past, I am posting a close-up photo of the Kaigelu cap finial for everyone to admire. Here it is:

 

http://i1376.photobucket.com/albums/ah12/phzervas/78A68183-CE10-4F00-8634-51D63C3783AB_zpsb1rnadjf.jpg

Edited August 3, 2016 by Frank66

[amberleadavis]

This thread wad very informative. Thank you.

[Frank66]

amberleadavis, thank you for your feedback, a reply from someone like you with so many posts is such a compliment for this thread, I appreciate it. By the way, your website http://http://sheismylawyer.com/She_Thinks_In_Ink/index.html is awesome, so artistic and stylish indeed!! Best regards, Photios

Edited August 4, 2016 by Frank66