How Far We Can Define A Pen As Vintage!

[H1N]

From my education at FPN, a fountain is "vintage", when it is older than Pakman.

He wouldn't lie about this !

That was before, but now I would say, a fountain is "vintage", when it is older than Pakman when he was at 50 age!

[H1N]

Interesting link

 

https://www.vintagepens.com/FAQbasics/vintage_defined.shtml

Edited July 9, 2017 by H1N

[praxim]

David appears to have added no comment to this thread, which is fair in that he has a commerical interest in definitions and implications for values..

[mallymal1]

Parker 45s could be 1960's, 70's, or more specific after 1980, vintage. You could have a 2010 vintage Duofold, all relating to a certain date or era.

 

On the other hand, the 1920's Parker 'Big Red' Duofolds might be known as vintage Parker. Or indeed the 51, or 45, relating to their quality.

 

So, of course, when I see a 'vintage' Parker 45 on eBay, I understand it to be a prime example of that paticular model.

[BEEG]

I have a simple rule - it's older than me - it's a vintage one...but some sellers don't think that and I see pens from the 90s listed as Vintage.

Edited July 9, 2017 by BEEG

[H1N]

I have a simple rule - it's older than me - it's a vintage one...but some sellers don't think that and I see pens from the 90s listed as Vintage.

I like your rule, but what about young ages!

[Bo Bo Olson]

Before '70, vintage. 70-late 90's, semi-vintage..........late '90's-now........modern.

The break between semi-vintage and modern has to do with the company making them....in many of the semi-vintage have not changed .....even the nibs. Pelikan changed the nibs in '98. Had changed the nibs before in '82-97.

[PaulS]

if you know the age of something, then it's probably of more practicable use to a buyer that you provide this information - assuming you are selling it - than to use vague terms like vintage which really means nothing outside of the wine trade, possibly. Pre-owned is another expression which is a slightly up-market way of saying secondhand - you might literally be the second person to own this item, on the other hand you could be the fiftieth, but it's come to be a catch all expression for anything not brand new and of indeterminate age.

Sellers want to enhance the value of their goods, and secondhand just doesn't cut it like vintage.

I had some notion that there was a considered opinion that vintage indicated up to fifty years of age, and antique one hundred, so some of our pens may now justifiably be called antiques.

Apart from dictionaries - and outside of the wine trade - does the law have anything to say about a definition for vintage ??

 

Which reminds me of the joke …………. if barristers take down their briefs do they become solicitors?

[georges zaslavsky]

vintage means over 50 years old for me

[sidthecat]

When I used to hang out at antique shows, the rough principle the dealers used was that if an item was thirty years old it was vintage; a hundred years old, it’s antique.

I have some Chinese dishes with a government seal certifying that they’re more than a century old. I got them a long time ago, so I don’t know if they still do that.

[Bo Bo Olson]

An antique is by law 100 years old....outside of cars....they become antique when you get a special license plate that says you don't have to have seat belts, or a converter and can burn rubber in front of a cop car.

 

I admit my classification of vintage is biased, in up to @ 1970/72 (Pelikan 1965) The major German makers if they made semi-flex still made them.

 

I agree with the pre-owned BS. Don't like the word gifted either.

I know lots of dead English teachers suddenly sitting up applauding me being 'A Defender of the English Language'.....you get old and grumpy, unless one was an English teacher, then one is/was young and grumpy.

 

...the pre-owned auto....was driven by a little old grandma on Sundays................at the the Winter Nationals.

 

Pre-Owned....means you are stupid enough to pay more for something secondhand or used, to have your ego $troked.

 

I may have 5-6 new pens out of the 80 so am not into new in that is $$$ outside of Chinese. ...do have some junkers which don't get counted....now it's amazing what junk some save until a chance comes to give it away...and watches with out a battery....because I collect mechanical watches.

Those watches were pre-owned..... Not worth enough to buy a new battery for the original owner or for me.

Edited May 19, 2019 by Bo Bo Olson

[FOUR X FOUR]

vintage means over 50 years old for me

Ditto. Right or wrong, I’d call it 50+ years

[Honeybadgers]

Do "the kids" no longer "get it"?

 

Do they say "do you remember where you were on 9/11? I wasn't even born then"

 

If it's older than the current batch of teenagers entering college, it's vintage. Stuff from 1990 is vintage. Cars don't really count because they're social extensions of our means, but look at furniture, houses, clothing style, film, music and technology.

 

One thing to note is that what is "vintage" has kind of been accelerating because of the internet. Our world leaps trends in a 4 month cycle now, not the 5-10 years it used to be. So since 2000 or so, we've gone through more trends in the past 20 years than we did in the previous 80.

 

I'm not even 31 yet and all the stuff I grew up with is vintage.

 

I know this isn't a new phenomenon, but it does feel weird that some of the things I own are still being made and are older than the kids in my college classes.

Edited May 19, 2019 by Honeybadgers

[sansenri]

I read through this with amusement but it seems the original meaning of vintage has not been exactly mentioned

 

the word vintage comes from the French word vendenge which means wive harvest and comes from the latin word vindemia (in Italian vendemmia)

 

the word defines generally wines from specific years in which quality was high grade.

 

with a meaning of praise the word is also extended to products different from wine, of particular fine quality (tobacco, cars, fashion, furniture) often in which style is démodé, evoking a certain period, style, tendency, taste.

 

So the actual age of vintage is undefined but it does refer to a specific style which has become known, recognizable, iconic, in a way.

[Honeybadgers]

I read through this with amusement but it seems the original meaning of vintage has not been exactly mentioned

 

the word vintage comes from the French word vendenge which means wive harvest and comes from the latin word vindemia (in Italian vendemmia)

 

the word defines generally wines from specific years in which quality was high grade.

 

with a meaning of praise the word is also extended to products different from wine, of particular fine quality (tobacco, cars, fashion, furniture) often in which style is démodé, evoking a certain period, style, tendency, taste.

 

So the actual age of vintage is undefined but it does refer to a specific style which has become known, recognizable, iconic, in a way.

 

 

You're right, in that vintage has no term because it's a word that refers to a high quality wine of a known date of harvest.

 

So a 2017 vintage Cheatau St. Michelle wine can be "vintage" as long as it's good

[Karmachanic]

1965 Romanee-Conti. That's vintage!

[georges zaslavsky]

1965 Romanee-Conti. That's vintage!

As much as is the chateau Margaux 1979

[H1N]

As much as is the chateau Margaux 1979

Good choice

[inkstainedruth]

...the pre-owned auto....was driven by a little old grandma on Sundays................at the the Winter Nationals.

My husband's grandmother lived to be nearly 98. She drove up till she was 91. She had something that I think was a '61 Sports Fury, and only drove it to church and to the grocery store, and split the trips with another little old lady. At one point she went to my brother-in-law because the mechanic had told her she needed new tires, and she was afraid she was being cheated because she was a little old lady.... Apparently, the tires were BALD. My husband said he was riding with her one time and they were stopped at a light, and when the light turned green he almost got whiplash -- she peeled out so fast she might have well been drag racing.... (The car ONLY had 11K miles on it when she stopped driving, BTW). If she hadn't lived in the DC area, I would have guessed her to be the inspiration for the song "Little Old Lady from Pasadena"....

@ Honeybadgers -- I feel your pain. I was in an antiques place a couple of years ago and saw some cardboard store display unit for some Bruce Springsteen album (and it wasn't for Born To Run, but one of the later albums...). I shudder every time I see stuff I grew up with (a few weeks ago, at the recurring flea market in Punxutawney, one booth had old metal lunch boxes and the vendor had TWO of the one I had growing up; and I really shudder every time I see the milk-white glassware with the raised dots, because we had some juice glasses my mother inherited from one of my great aunts....).

As for pens? I still like the definition of "vintage" being before the Parker 45 was introduced, because that was pretty much the first commercially viable c/c pen, and therefore a complete game changer in the market.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[corniche]

Hi all,

 

I know as we age, we have a tendency to "stop the clock" and the things we grew up - I can relate to Ruth - we don't consider an "antique," but I consider a good general guideline as anything older than 30 years old is "vintage"; anything older than 60 years old is "antique."

 

Make of that what you will.

 

 

- Sean