Waterman Cartridges And Converters

[Wandering Man]

Thanks.

[Wandering Man]

I now have another question about the converter that came with my 1980's Executive.

 

It's the 56010 converter:

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=344177

 

I picked the pen up to write with this evening and it went dry on me. I pulled off the body, and discovered the ink had flowed out of the converter and into the body of the pen. Working the converter back and forth a bit, I found ink on the wrong side of the piston.

 

Since I'm not a genius (I know I'm doing the same thing and expecting different results), I refilled the pen and will go with it again tomorrow.

 

I'm not sure if the converter wasn't pushed in far enough, or if the piston is broken. I remember having trouble drawing ink into the converter yesterday. But this evening, with that extra push on the converter, it pulled ink out of the bottle with no problems.

 

In the event that I am overly optimistic, can these converters be disassembled and repaired? Or will I need to abandon the original and go with the modern converter?

 

 

[Left FPN]

Spoooky what. I have just received a Carene and when I removed the converter (the latest controversial model #15 above, which contained some ink) there was ink on the outside surface and by then on my pinkies. After cleaning it I did my tests with nay a pop heard. Conclusion, the mouth had a split.

 

My test for all converters.

 

Empty the converter of ink. Wind the piston fully in (piston near the mouth). Place a finger over mouth and wind the piston out approx 5mm. Release finger from mouth. You should hear the vacuum pop. Repeat every 5mm until piston is fully out. At each stage the pop will slightly decrease.

 

If you do not hear pops the converter is U/S. Either the mouth has a split or the piston seal shot.

 

Buy a new converter.

 

[RMN]

I now have another question about the converter that came with my 1980's Executive.

 

It's the 56010 converter:

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=344177

 

I picked the pen up to write with this evening and it went dry on me. I pulled off the body, and discovered the ink had flowed out of the converter and into the body of the pen. Working the converter back and forth a bit, I found ink on the wrong side of the piston.

 

Since I'm not a genius (I know I'm doing the same thing and expecting different results), I refilled the pen and will go with it again tomorrow.

 

I'm not sure if the converter wasn't pushed in far enough, or if the piston is broken. I remember having trouble drawing ink into the converter yesterday. But this evening, with that extra push on the converter, it pulled ink out of the bottle with no problems.

 

In the event that I am overly optimistic, can these converters be disassembled and repaired? Or will I need to abandon the original and go with the modern converter?

 

 

 

The fact that you had troubles filling yesterday (but none today) suggests that the converter wasn't seated properly. That will result in ink spill in the barrel and then ink may also get behind the piston. I think it was less likely you had a temporarily malfunctioning piston.

 

Anyway, Force's suction-pop test is a good one to detect leaks in the converter.

 

 

 

D.ick

[SpecTP]

I opened my Man 200 today and noted that there was ink all over the internals. Sure enough, there's a crack in the lip of the converter. Time for a new one.

[Left FPN]

I opened my Man 200 today and noted that there was ink all over the internals. Sure enough, there's a crack in the lip of the converter. Time for a new one.

It is clear Waterman selected the wrong material for this new converter.

 

If you can, pick up one of the earlier chromed ring versions because they have rubber mouth. You might have to source a complete pen with one. It may not have to be an expensive pen because they were supplied with cheaper models.

[SpecTP]

It is clear Waterman selected the wrong material for this new converter.

 

If you can, pick up one of the earlier chromed ring versions because they have rubber mouth. You might have to source a complete pen with one. It may not have to be an expensive pen because they were supplied with cheaper models.

 

I was able to find some on eBay. I still have a few of the standard plastic ones as spares so it'll hold until I can get it replaced.

[sztainbok]

1. Glass cartridge - long (65mm)

Glass65mm.jpg

 

2. Glass cartridge - medium (52mm)

 

3. C/F cartridge (also used with Watermina pens)

CFCartridge.jpg

 

or another style (also used with Watermina pens)

CFCartridge2.jpg

 

4. C/F converter - side bar (also used with Watermina pens)(Waterman part # 89508/89598)

CF.jpg

 

5. Side bar converter (some were fixed)

1960_70.jpg

 

6. Jifmatic lever converter (some were fixed)

88.jpg

 

7. Large Size Standard cartridge (polyethylene) - 72mm

LongCartridge.jpg

 

8. International short cartridge (polyethylene) - 42mm

ShortCartridge2.jpg

 

9. Plunger converter - all plastic (my sample was damaged in the post)

PlungerPlastic.jpg

 

10. Plunger converter - metal/plastic (Waterman Part # 56002) Ref Note 2.

PlungerMetalPlastic.jpg

 

11. Screw-piston converter - grooved collar, nylon piston with integral seal. Ref Note 2.

NylonPiston.jpg

 

12. Screw-piston converter - plain collar, black plastic piston, red silicone O seal.

PlainRing.jpg

 

13. Screw-piston converter - grooved collar, black plastic piston red silicone O seal. Ref Note 2.

GroovedRedSeal.jpg

 

Special to the Edson Emerald. Ref Note 2.

EdsonEmerald.jpg

 

Special to the Edson Ruby. Ref Note 2.

EdsonRuby.jpg

 

Special to the Edson Sapphire (This is the 2014 onward version. The earlier version will have a grooved ring)

EdsonSapphire_01.jpg

 

14. Screw-piston converter - spiral collar, black plastic piston, black O seal. Ref Note 2.

ThreadBlackSeal.jpg

 

15. Screw-piston converter - all black plastic mouth

AllPlastic.jpg

 

16. No 23 cartridge (for No 88 pen ??) Possibly termed 'Maxima' which was introduced by JiF-Waterman in 1963.

Waterman_88_carts_2.jpg

 

17. Flash converter 1 - side bar

Flash Converter.jpg

 

18. Flash converter 2 - side bar

sidebar_02.JPG

 

19. CF Converter - side bar with bar towards the tail end of the body. Sorry about the poor picture, it was lifted from a CF web sale. (also used with Watermina pens)

sidebar_03b.JPG

 

20. 300 Squeeze Bar - a single piece of steel wrapping around the sac. Instructions printer thereon state, WATERMAN MADE IN ENGLAND. TO FILL PRESS RIBBED BAR 6 TIMES. AFTER FILLING LEAVE IMMERSED IN INK FOR 10 SECONDS.

300 squeeze bar.jpg

 

NOTES:

1. Some of these have a ribbed mouth piece, but they are NOT screw-lock converters like the Schmidt K6

2. Some converters have a threaded or grooved collar. It is not a screw thread but a feature, creating surface roughness, to aid retention inside plastic sections. To my knowledge ALL Waterman converters are a push fit into sections.

 

Hi Force. Thank you for the thorough coverage. I have a question about the plunger converters Nº 9 and 10. Do they fill in one stroke (such as you would fill an Onoto pen), by pulling as a syringe or by pumping several times? Also, what pens was it used on?

Thank you, Victor.

[Left FPN]

Yes, they are push pull plungers. Although I have never use one I think I would push fully in, dip nib into ink, pull fully out, wait a few seconds, remove from ink, invert and gently push piston in until all air is emitted, dip nib into ink and pull piston fully out.

 

Sorry I do not know which models they fitted but I will check my catalogues to see which pens appear when they are shown in accessories.

[sztainbok]

OK, from what you are saying it appears to work as a syringe.

Thanks so much for the info.

Greetings, Victor.

[sztainbok]

Hi Force, I just found this converter for sale on this web page, https://www.myparker.ru/shop/UID_92.html

It is in Russian, and when I looked at the translation it states it is only for use on C/F Waterman models. It makes sense because of the flat end of the front part of the converter which is similar to the side bar C/F converter.

I thought it would be interesting to share this information. Perhaps you could confirm this if you have a C/F to fit the converter into.

Victor.

[aurore]

Is anything from current production suitable for Watermina? Any hacks? Or just CF cartridges/converter?

[adamselene]

Thanks so much!

 

I’ve been trying to flush the blue stain out of my slightly used preowned Edson Saphire!

[Dip n Scratch]

I have a Waterman Expert 1 and converter. The annoying thing is that the barrel of the pen won't screw on if I wanted to use a short International cartridge.

After investigating it is only a mere 0.5mm. I measured several cartridges and some of them are 7mm at the very end, but 6.5mm wide at all other places along their length. This means that some older Jinhao Blue cartridges fit wheras some rather newer Jinhao Deep Blue do not.

The same applies to Diamine and Herbin cartridges I do have. I do not want to take a file to the Waterman's barrel.

[Wandering Man]

 

The fact that you had troubles filling yesterday (but none today) suggests that the converter wasn't seated properly. That will result in ink spill in the barrel and then ink may also get behind the piston. I think it was less likely you had a temporarily malfunctioning piston.

 

Anyway, Force's suction-pop test is a good one to detect leaks in the converter.

 

 

 

D.ick

 

 

 

 

Well, it has taken two years for this pen to come around again. I've got the second converter in the pen, and it has failed. The ink is in the top of the converter, rather than in the glass tube. The ink comes pouring out of a hole in the top, where you twist the piston. (is there a formal name for that piece?)

I've put a newer model converter in the pen, but before I pitch this old one into the trash, is there a way to rehabilitate it? A quick You Tube search did not reveal any assistance. I am hoping to get help from the experts here. I hate to just throw it away.

-WM

Edited August 6, 2020 by Wandering Man

[Wandering Man]

I'm attempting to repair this old converter. It allowed ink to flow past the piston into the body of the pen. I could not take the converter apart, so I have applied silicone grease to the back part of the converter. I rolled the converter all the way down, so that the screw was visible in the glass, then I added gobs of silicone grease through the hole in the top of the converter, using a plastic toothpick. Then I rolled the converter piston up and down multiple times, hoping the grease would revive the seal.

 

I found an old laureat section and nib to plug the converter into. Then I filled the converter with water and let the converter sit overnight. This morning there was no sign of a leak. I got bolder and replaced the water with ink. Now I've found some other old pen parts and stuck a body and cap on my converter/section/nib. I've placed this frankenstein pen on my pen stand along with my other pens. I'll let you know if the seal holds, or if I have a body filled with ink sometime in the next couple of days.

 

The down side of all of this is that now I know I've got a perfectly good section and nib for a waterman laureat and I feel compelled to find a body and cap to plug these into.

 

 

 

Edited August 7, 2020 by Wandering Man

[Mysterious Mose]

I would like some help identifying two converters. I don't have pictures of them yet. They're so small.

 

I have three different Waterman Converters. All of them are marked "Waterman Made in France".

 

Two of them have a black plastic section about 6mm long, leading up to the black plastic nipple, which plugs into the pen. I'm not sure if "nipple" is the right word. You might say conical tubes with an opening about 4mm in diameter. Now, one of these converters is marked "1" and the other one is marked "2". The numbers appear on the nipple. They appear identical except for these numerical labels. Converter #1 leaks at the back end, around where you turn the knob to ingest or expel ink. When #2 is used in a Waterman Expert II, the pen occasionally clogs and skips.

 

The third converter has a metal section where the others have a plastic section. It has the same conical nipple as them except that it does not have a numerical making. I use this converter in a Waterman Phileas without any problems.

 

Please identify these converters. Which pens are they suitable for?

[BaronWulfraed]

Unless some are threaded, they are likely interchangeable. The numbers you mention may just be for tracking which mold made the part.

[dennis_f]

I would like some help identifying two converters. I don't have pictures of them yet. They're so small.

 

I have three different Waterman Converters. All of them are marked "Waterman Made in France".

 

Two of them have a black plastic section about 6mm long, leading up to the black plastic nipple, which plugs into the pen. I'm not sure if "nipple" is the right word. You might say conical tubes with an opening about 4mm in diameter. Now, one of these converters is marked "1" and the other one is marked "2". The numbers appear on the nipple. They appear identical except for these numerical labels. Converter #1 leaks at the back end, around where you turn the knob to ingest or expel ink. When #2 is used in a Waterman Expert II, the pen occasionally clogs and skips.

 

The third converter has a metal section where the others have a plastic section. It has the same conical nipple as them except that it does not have a numerical making. I use this converter in a Waterman Phileas without any problems.

 

Please identify these converters. Which pens are they suitable for?

 

I don't know if this helps but I have two converters, bought last fall, that sound identical to yours except that they are marked "3" on the edge of the section. Both are interchangeable and I swap them betwen an Exception and a Carene.

 

They were bought from two different stores and I was never asked which pen I was using. It's my understanding that a "current" Waterman converter can be swapped between any of the current pens.

 

As for the skipping you describe, that happens to me as well, and I think it is due to surface tension issues particular to Waterman converters. I've seen reviews online of different Watermen pens where this issue was discussed, and reviewers have suggested it might be a converter issue. I've also seen it pop up on the occasional thread here on FPN. Apparently this can be cured by inserting something into the conveter to break the surface tension, but I haven't investigated exactly what would work, or how to insert it without it falling back out.

[RMN]

I'm attempting to repair this old converter. It allowed ink to flow past the piston into the body of the pen. I could not take the converter apart, so I have applied silicone grease to the back part of the converter. I rolled the converter all the way down, so that the screw was visible in the glass, then I added gobs of silicone grease through the hole in the top of the converter, using a plastic toothpick. Then I rolled the converter piston up and down multiple times, hoping the grease would revive the seal.

 

I found an old laureat section and nib to plug the converter into. Then I filled the converter with water and let the converter sit overnight. This morning there was no sign of a leak. I got bolder and replaced the water with ink. Now I've found some other old pen parts and stuck a body and cap on my converter/section/nib. I've placed this frankenstein pen on my pen stand along with my other pens. I'll let you know if the seal holds, or if I have a body filled with ink sometime in the next couple of days.

 

The down side of all of this is that now I know I've got a perfectly good section and nib for a waterman laureat and I feel compelled to find a body and cap to plug these into.

 

 

 

 

OK. looking at the second picture: Where did it leak? At the point where it is in the section (grip part) of the pen? Or at the shiny end just above the black knurled turning knob?

 

If the latter: That shiny end can be unscrewed. But it may be glued to the clear plastic (NOT glass) Or it may be sticky because of ink residue. So perhaps heating it up to soften the glue and then gripping it in a rubber covered vise to unscrew it. Then you can clean the piston and apply just a pinprick of silicon grease and put it all together.

 

The clear hard plastic can get static, and airbubbles can cling to the sides, thus prohibiting free flow (Cohesion and adhesion working). In cartridges a small ball (that locks the new cart) rolls around and breaks up the bubbles, besides that plastic doesn't get as much static. It's the reason I am not fond of these type of converters. I prefer the older squeeze converters.

 

 

D.ick