Newbie Asks Vol.1: Flex

[Meltemi]

Hello everyone! I have been going through threads about flex but I really eed some reccomendations. I am much willing to buy a flexible nib fountain pen but I am not sure what would be quite right. So far I have considered:

• Pilot 912 FA nib
• Pilot 743 FA nib
• Wahl Everharp (vintage flex)
• Noodler's Ahab with modified feed and Zebra G nib

Buut... I do know what would better fit my needs. I heard that the Pilot feeds can not keep up with the flexibility of the nib leading to railroading. Any truth to that?What Pilot pen is more flexible? (Feel free to suggest other pens as well )

 

[jar]

I always suggest buying based on the seller instead of the pen. If you work through folk like Maurico Aguilar or David Nishimura and spend some time talking with them and answering their questions you will get what you want.

[rwilsonedn]

What jar said. Happiness with a flex pen is not just about buying the right nib. It is about understanding what you are trying to achieve, understanding what your are buying, and committing to put in the learning and practice to get the results you want. If you are new to flex nibs, you will have to change some habits. Working with an expert such as those jar mentioned can be a great time- and trouble-saver, and can lead you to the result you wanted, instead of just to a pen that never seems to do what you hoped it would.

ron

[Kataphract]

Those are the most flexible Pilots. The consistent thing I keep reading is that the ink has difficulty keeping up, so that seems to be a definitive problem. The next most flexible Pilot is the regularly named Falcon, but that is a soft, or at very most, a semi-flex nib. The feed keeps up fairly well, but it isn't absolutely perfect. The Noodler's Ahab flexes a fair amount, but it is very, very stiff. It can be made to flex easier with some simply mods (search under "ease my flex") but remains a fussy, fiddly pen regardless. If you want to go the Zebra G route, my advice is to use a pen specifically designed around it, the Desiderata (but you have to hope the designer happens to have made a new batch and it isn't sold out yet).

 

And then there is the thing most will recommend, which is vintage flex. Steep learning curve on figuring out that market, and possible steep prices. But in the end, the vintage pens are superior to pretty much any modern pen for flex.

[Nanor]

FPR offer a good range if inexpensive pens with flex nibs and specifically designed feeds (no affiliation, just a satisfied customer). I found that they worked a lot better and with far less pressure than the Ahab.

The Desiderata with a Zebra G is excellent for Spencerian and Copperplate and great fun to play with but I don't find it suitable for everyday flex cursive use.

Vintage pens do offer superior performance, but getting a tested nib from a trusted dealer wont be cheap, alternatively if you hunt for one on ebay, you're taking gamble that might not pay off.

If you're just starting to write with flex you may be a little heavy handed as you learn and you could risk springing the vintage nib or the pricey Pilot Falcon.

There are lot's of options out there and seemingly conflicting information to get your head around. I'd suggest that a Fountain Pen Revolution Flex pen would be a good place to start while you figure the rest of it out.

[jabberwock11]

Like the others have said, it all depends on what you are using it for.

 

If you are interested in calligraphy or Spencerian handwriting, then either a vintage pen or a Zebra G frankenpen would be the way to go (well, honestly a dip pen with some good pointed pen nibs would be my suggestion). The problem with a frankenpen is that it can be quite a challenge to get it set up so that it writes consistently.

 

If you just want to add a little flair to your everyday writing then Fountain Pen Revolution has some good modern flex pens. I have the Triveni Jr. and like it quite a bit. I have also heard good things about the Noodler's Nib Creaper, but I have never used one personally.

 

If you are after a ton of flex, but have never used a flex pen...well it might not be a good idea to spend too much. You may find a super flexible pen to be difficult to control, or you may end up springing the nib. Starting off with something a little less pricey may be a wise first step. A simple pen holder and a few nibs will cost you less than $10 and allow you to try flex writing without too much expense. You may even discover that you actually prefer dip pens...

[Sandy1]

Hi,

 

There is much written about flex nibs, yet all of that needs to be taken in the context of ones' ability to manage a flex nib.

 

I for one write with a brisk light hand, and was slow to come to the realisation that I need to learn different writing mechanics and spend more time in the calligraphers dojo. Nothing too too arduous, but technique is a prerequisite to exploiting flex nibs potential.

 

Bye,

S1

[Mauricio]

Hello everyone! I have been going through threads about flex but I really eed some reccomendations. I am much willing to buy a flexible nib fountain pen but I am not sure what would be quite right. So far I have considered:

• Pilot 912 FA nib
• Pilot 743 FA nib
• Wahl Everharp (vintage flex)
• Noodler's Ahab with modified feed and Zebra G nib

Buut... I do know what would better fit my needs. I heard that the Pilot feeds can not keep up with the flexibility of the nib leading to railroading. Any truth to that?What Pilot pen is more flexible? (Feel free to suggest other pens as well )

 

 

Meltemi,

 

The Pilot Pen Company makes "soft" nibs for some of their pen models. They do not call their nibs flex for a reason: They are not flexible nibs. They are soft nibs specifically designed and manufactured for Kanji, the Japanese script made with very short traces to form characters. Some of these traces have line variation. Pilot soft nibs are wonderful for Kanji script, but if you want to use them for any form of Western flex calligraphy, those nibs will not be able to keep up with the required demands. Remember those forms of script require the writing of complete words with flex strokes throughout the word and without releasing the nib from paper throughout the writing of the entire word.

 

Noodlers: They are considered the most inconsistent and unreliable pens in the market place at the moment. I gave up on them a long time ago. I am used to high quality writing instruments. I repair fountain pens and have come up with some of the most sophisticated pen body/flex nib setups in fountain pens. However, the quality and inconsistency of the manufacture of Noodlers components will never allow for consistent and reliable flex writing, regardless of what is done to those pens or regardless of the nibs installed in those pens. I would never recommend a problematic pen to anyone, even less to someone new to fountain pens and/or flex writing. If you are looking for budget flex go with dip pens and dip nibs penholders. They have proven themselves for centuries for be very reliable and true flex writers!

 

Vintage Wahl Eversharp: This and many other brands and models or vintage pens were designed and manufactured for flex purposes. They are not a gimmick, substandard product or simply using the term "flex" to be luring customers and join the bandwagon of more fountain enthusiast wanting to venture with flexible nibs. They are the real deal. If one of this pen has been professionally restored and its nib has been professionally installed to offer ideal ink flow and performance flex writing, you will not look back. You will be better off investing your money into one high quality writing instrument that waste your time and money with gimmicks and substandard product.

 

Just because a manufacturer calls a nib flex does not imply that nib is really a flexible one. There is lots of misrepresentation and misinformation when it comes to flexible nibs in the marketplace. Be very aware of this.

 

Please refer to the two following articles in my website. They thoroughly explain your concerns about flexible nibs:

 

Performance Flex

 

Grading Flex Nibs

[DerTiefster]

I've seen many well-meant and quite accurate statements on this topic. They are all qualified. To a physicist, the relevant concept is "boundary conditions." In this case, what are the surrounding conditions you want to satisfy while achieving flex? For some, the principal "figure of merit" is low cost. For me, it is education. I chose to purchase several flex-ish pens from various sources: Minuskin, eBay, FPN vendors, and even Noodlers. I'm quite happy with what I've learned.

 

The Watermans 12 eyedropper keeps getting its grip area wetted with ink when it lies on its side for too long. I'm learning to prevent that. The Noodler's Ahab disappeared from my home. I'm learning that it is attractive to some of my children. The Conklin pens have variable flex. I'm learning about that, and what it looks like on the nib. I've picked up some dip pens, too, for comparison, and I'm learning from them. I'm planning to try out some of the mods to cheap nibs, a la "ease my flex."

 

I'm astounded by the range of what can be done within the simple topic of pens (fountain or otherwise) and marvel over the ingenuity of people in times past. Being an experimental physicist, I think that it's fascinating what one can do with the bits and pieces one finds when "turning over rocks" in a technical sense. Fins on feeds to capture excess ink, capillary action to return the ink to the reservoiri, and so forth. People made their livelihoods from exploitation of such technical details, not to mention providing jobs for hundreds of others of their fellows in the process.

 

Well, this has been fun. But as was said (approximately) above, one must know what one wishes to achieve in order to achieve it. Decide what is important to you about flex nibs before trying to achieve it. Do you simply want to put ink on paper in a particular fashion? Do you want to know what is happening while doing that? Do you want to minimize the budget? Or do you perhaps want to explore this (very confined) corner of the world and learn what your fellow humans have accomplished? These are different things, although they overlap significantly.

[Meltemi]

Thank you everyone for the replies ! I most likely will be going with the Wahl Eversharp or maybe a Waterman if I can get my hands on one.However, I have found that some out-of-the-box Pilot pens have a tube in the feed that minimizes the ink flow. This feed tube can be removed in order to achieve greater wetness and stability when flexing. However, I would not really like to invest in a 150$ fountain pen to later on modify it. Peyton Street Pens has some great Waterman full-flex deals and I will be looking into that. I also heard that Wahl Eversharp came out with a fully flexible nib on the brand new pen they have produced. The price however sets it out of my reach (850$) so I will be looking forward for the demonstrator version of it. As for the modified Noodler's Ahab I might add it to my to-do list as a project.

[Pterodactylus]

 

(Serwex MB flex EMF ..... ESS Registrars Blue-Black)

(Faber Castell Castell 9000 - 3B)

 

If you don´t tried flexible nibs before I suggest to try some flexible dip nibs to see if you like it or not before investing real money.

[DerTiefster]

For a recoverable "dip" into flex, you could look for pens broken but with good nib/feed at auction and use them as dip pens. The feed will hold enough ink to let you write for several lines (or more) before having to reload the pen. There are visual cues (search FPN for some pics) but if a nib says "flexible" it probably is (enough). If "manifold" then not. Otherwise it's a guess. Or check out a pen show. Or look at minuskin's site for a lot of examples of flex nibs to calibrate your eyeballs. Good examples from "cheapjeep" on auction (generally renewed examples; no connection at all to me, but I've looked at many of his wares; he commonly shows writing amples). Low-buck items can prospectively re-sold with little loss incurred if they don't meet your expectations. Other routes exist.

[Meltemi]

The writting sample is really great! It is amazing how line variation can be achieved with a pencil! I have tried so far the Zebra G and the Brause Pumpkin nib.

[Intellidepth]

For Noodler's pens, for a diy option search for 'EMF' here on FPN.

 

Alternatively, also look up 'DaLuz' for my review on a customised pen. I now have 3 Noodler's pens modded by DaLuz. He mods the nib, creates an overfeed, mods the cap, and if necessary mods the section and feed. No railroading thanks to handmade titanium overfeed in particular.

[missuslovett]

When searching for flex nibs on vintage pens, beware of nibs that say they are 'manifold' (Wahl do this) or 'accounts' (Waterman). Both these nibs are intended for use through copying paper and are complete nails. If buying a vintage pen through Ebay, make sure you look for a seller who offers a sample of the pen's writing. Many good sellers do this now as it's a lure to more buyers and at least you have an idea how it handles. A good seller will also tell you if it flexes. Another vintage make I would recommend for flex is Swan Mabie Todd. Made both in the US and United Kingdom these are beautiful pens that I've generally found flexible to some degree, although you should probably avoid Swan's 'Eternal' nibs for the same reason as the Manifold or Accounts. Good luck and I hope you find something that suits you!

[Cryptos]

If you are intending to learn Spencerian as a writing hand - rather than as a calligraphic practice - then you will not need that much flex at all. Look at the script. Whole words written in monoline (or near enough to it) with perhaps one or two minor accents (shades).

 

As others have already mentioned, your intended use for the pen will dictate the kind of pen you should look for.

 

Furthermore, there is absolutely no mystique to using flexible points, so please do not be apprehensive about trying stuff out. EoC - who is perennially on the bottom rung of the skill ladder - leaped in with zebra G nib and holder, and if he can manage to produce legible script within a few minutes of trying (and it was the first time of trying), anyone can do it.

 

Grab some dippies and go for it - while you are waiting and researching.

[Meltemi]

Update: I have found some very interesting vintage options. A Mabbie and ofcourse a Wahl-Eversharp. However, I am thinking more and more about the Desiderata pen. It surely will give me the ammount of line variation I get using a Zebra G and a nibholder.

 

As for vintage option, to me they still are options. But considering that I could get a Pilot fountain pen that is brand-new and has almost the same ammount of flex, things get complicated. I have seen the Pilot 742 with the Fa nib being used in combination with Pelikan's Indian Ink to prevent railroading and I was quite surprised ( I think the video or a similar one is called "Inking test"). I did some research on this pen and the notorious Fa nib and found out that the flex given to the nib is an attempt to emulate a paintbrush stroke. I think that the paintbrush-stroke kind of flex is different than what one would feel with a Waterman or Eversharp vintage nib. As for the starting issues of the Fa nib, I read that it is a problem. Others say that the more the nib is used, the less hard starts will occur. (Still confused )

[missuslovett]

As others have said Pilot don't produce classic flex nibs for Western calligraphy like Copperplate or Spencerian. Their nibs are 'soft' to support the line variation in Japanese characters, though pens like the Namiki Falcon can be adapted to give much more flex for a Western hand. One of these days I'll get round to affording a Namiki Falcon custom! I love the shape of the nib. With the aid of another FPN member, I've just fitted my Noodlers Konrad with a Zebra G stainless. This is an even cheaper way of getting some flex practice. I can't comment on Desiderata pens as I've never tried one but others recommend them and this is a good place to get recommends. I wouldn't use Indian ink in any of my pens. Railroading has more to do with a badly seated feed and I wouldn't want to clog it with anything waterproof.

 

EoC is right. Just jump in with a dip pen. It will give you a much better idea of what you want from a FP and wear down some of the 'mystique' surrounding flex. The stuff I'm producing now, I'd never have imagined I could accomplish just a few months ago when I started.

[Meltemi]

I have used dip nibs but I am not mich interested in Spencerian. I have used the Brause Pumpkin, the Zebra G that I have fitted into a jinhao (my greed for wetness destroyed it unfortunately) and a nib that I can I have not yet found its name.

[missuslovett]

The wettest nib I've come across was on a Waterman 52 ripple. Eye wateringly expensive! Also a Wahl desk pen with Wahl 'flexi' nib. That was brilliant, even if I had nowhere to put it without a stand. What you're doing is what all us flex fiends are doing. Pursuing the nib grail.