Fading Inks

[Uncial]

I thought it might be useful to have a thread that lists writers experiences of fading inks. I usually try and avoid inks that fade a lot, but some fade only a little and while this doesn't bother me too much it might bother others. For ease of reading, perhaps we can devise a grading of fading as follows:

Significant: the ink fades very significantly, either in terms of a big change of colour or in shade or has disappearing or unreadable text.

Moderate: The text is still readable, but there is a noticeable shift in colour or shade but it is still, more or less, the colour it proclaims itself to be.

Mild: Some fading, but you have to look hard at comparisons to notice.

For me, I would like to avoid inks that have significant fading. Sometimes this can be noticeable within weeks of laying the ink on the page and at other times it doesn't become apparent until a year or two later. Thankfully I have yet to discover a 'significant' fading ink.

Here's my list:

 

Iroshizuku Fuyu-Gaki (Moderate)

Waterman Mysterious Blue (Moderate)+

Montbanc Royal Blue (Moderate)

Noodler's Cactus Fruit Eel (Mild)

Diamine Majestic Blue (Mild)

Akkerman Verhoot (Mild)

Noodler's Purple Martin (Mild)

Sailor Bungbox Happiness (Mild)

J Herbin Blue Pervenche (Mild)

Montblanc Leo Tolstoy (Moderate)*

Pelikan Edelstein Topaz (Mild)

Montblanc Dark Blue (Moderate)

 

 

+I'm a little concerned about this one. I haven't had it long and it has faded very noticeably.

*This discovery hurt. I love this ink. It seems to survive alright in a normal nib, but a stub nib highlights the shift in shade.

[Notgatherox]

Lamy Blue (Moderate)

Pelikan 4001 Violet (Significant)

 

In their defense, it's been over a year. I found them in a drawer while I was searching for my Maruman paper.

 

 

~Epic

[Uncial]

Sorry, I should have added that these are not inks that fade when left exposed to light.

[AndyYNWA]

So they fade when.....?

[The Good Captain]

Fading can be an issue for some but I have to say that I don't really bother too much. After all, if anyone left alive after I've 'gone' can read my writing, they deserve a medal; if the ink is faded or not!

[Uncial]

So they fade when.....?

They fade in a closed book.

Some fade after about a year and then seem to 'settle' while others continue to fade but at a less rapid rate. I suspect the blues will never fade away entirely....I hope. Other inks (Waterman Mysterious Blue, I'm looking at you!) fade in a matter of weeks and keep fading. Hence my concern expressed about it up-thread.

I thought originally that a lot of my oranges would be big faders but they've done alright on the whole. Herbin's Orange Indien is a bright as when I first wrote it about two or three years ago.

[Abner C. Kemp]

Does anyone have a list of inks that don't fade. I'd assume Noodler's Black would be one.

 

Pelikan 4001 Royal Blue fades which shouldn't be all that surprising.

 

I currently have a page taped to my basement window consisting of Pelikan 4001 Royal Blue, Noodler's Liberty's Elysium, Rohrer & Klinger Sciabosa, Noodler's Black and a few others. I figure I'll leave them for a few months and report back.

[white_lotus]

The problem here (other than the fading itself) is you have no measurement system for the amount of UV light reaching your ink tests. It is a problem with everyone doing their informal tests, because all inks that are not IG, not nano-particle, or black will most likely have some fading. This is because they are dyes and not pigments. Even those used in outdoor signs fade over time with exposure to light and the elements.

 

In the old days, if you wanted a permanent ink, you used an IG ink.

 

There are also other factors that can effect the longevity of an ink. What is the acidity of the paper? I imagine that most papers made these days are acid-free, but if not, maybe there are interactions occurring that are effecting the ink on the paper. The other components of the ink vehicle don't disappear once you put ink to paper, they may also be effecting things. Light is not the only danger, but heat, humidity as well.

 

If the notebook is kept on a desk, and the desk receives direct sunshine, even if the book is closed there may be light seepage, though that seems small to me.

 

While Amber and some other folks have done informal tests, and perhaps it's useful to check those charts/tables, we don't have scientific identification of what inks are actually fugitive. If done scientifically and properly published, people could avoid the fugitive inks. The manufacturers will change the their formulas.

 

Back when I painted in watercolors, there were many paints that were very traditional, but they were fugitive. Eventually they would fade to greater of lesser degrees. The manufacturers said "we don't need to change those colors, this is what watercolorists have been using for a century". Well, once their colors were tested against the Blue Wool Scale by some semi-professionals, and found seriously lacking, there was a sea change in what pigments were used in their manufacturer. Now, it is very rare to find a fugitive color, the manufacturers list the pigments used in their paints on the tube. And the paints are permanent. While we're dealing with dyes here, I don't expect the same level of lightfastness, but going from totally fugitive to reasonably permanent would be a big step forward.

[inkstainedruth]

Quink Washable Blue fades a lot.

J Herbin Vert Empire didn't fade so much as it sort of morphed into a grayish green.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[AndyYNWA]

They fade in a closed book.

Some fade after about a year and then seem to 'settle' while others continue to fade but at a less rapid rate. I suspect the blues will never fade away entirely....I hope. Other inks (Waterman Mysterious Blue, I'm looking at you!) fade in a matter of weeks and keep fading. Hence my concern expressed about it up-thread.

I thought originally that a lot of my oranges would be big faders but they've done alright on the whole. Herbin's Orange Indien is a bright as when I first wrote it about two or three years ago.

Fading in a closed drawer is the same as fadign in sunlight, it just takes longer in a drawer. It's the UV-radiation that breaks down the dyes.

 

BTW, the worst fader of them all is Noodler's Baystate Blue.

 

Also, here is a quite extensive fading test made by Amber. https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/290775-pilot-iroshizuku-full-line-24-inks/page-2?do=findComment&comment=3425370

[bizhe]

Quink Washable Blue fades a lot.

 

+1

[Uncial]

Fading in a closed drawer is the same as fadign in sunlight, it just takes longer in a drawer. It's the UV-radiation that breaks down the dyes.

 

BTW, the worst fader of them all is Noodler's Baystate Blue.

 

Also, here is a quite extensive fading test made by Amber. https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/290775-pilot-iroshizuku-full-line-24-inks/page-2?do=findComment&comment=3425370

 

Thank you, I didn't know that had been done and its very useful to see

[amberleadavis]

We've actually done a couple of these tests and have compiled a few spreadsheets. Look under the pinned topics and you can see some of the threads. Also, look up the recent post about BSB which is my control ink because the Baystate inks are the fastest faders.