One Vacumatic Less Usual

[kirchh]

Lazard -

 

When did Parker first offer a Lifetime guarantee on some Vacumatic models?

 

--Daniel

[Brian-McQueen]

Please note that Imperial Coronet is catalogued and "your pen" not. You can not put them in the same sac.

I can put them in the same sac. They are both very, very difficult to find.

 

Your above barrel imprint, by transparency and non-diaphragm, seems top left and I said: Top left. No problem. (Pre-speedline=Non guaranted + 3rings=Non guaranteed) = Non guaranteed.

No, it is the imprint of the top right pen. Here is the picture of both pens together, in case you have doubt.

About the other with 1940 4Q imprint,1940 4Q with old non-split feather clip? 1940 4Q barrel lockdown filler 1st generation?

The pen has an old non-split feather clip. The pen has a Speedline Filler. In your "Many, many more pens" than me that you claimed to have analyzed, you have never seen this model before? Curious. Maybe you haven't seen as much as you think compared to me.

 

Failed in your attempt to show pens against the theory you now could try this matter conceptually answering these questions -quid pro quo, now my turn to ask-:

I have not failed in this regard. I have shown you two pens which cast doubt on your theory. I will answer your questions anyway, then present you a few questions.

 

A. What attribute have the 1937-38 pens with chevron band that doesn´t have the those years pens with 3 rings cap for to be significantly more expensive?

I have already answered this question, but I will copy my response here again for clarity.

I don't know what makes them more expensive except that they are a new model. When a new iPhone model comes out, is it not more expensive than the old model?

 

Now I pose my first question to you: What attribute do you think makes them more expensive?

 

B. If Parker not recognized the Lifetime of non-Lifetime pens trought the cap band, how you do think they recognize this?

Prior to the introduction of the Blue Diamond, they recognize the Lifetime Guarantee by model. It is no secret that Parker had a Lifetime Guarantee on Debutantes, Majors, Slender Maximas, and Senior Maximas.

When they mention the Lifetime Guarantee in the 1938 catalog, they clearly state which pen models have the Lifetime Guarantee. Parker could tell which pens were guaranteed by knowing which model they were. One of the ways they knew which model it was is by the cap band style.

Do you think Parker would have given pens with "Vacumatic" Cap Bands the "Blue Diamond Service" mentioned in the 1948 Parts List? I do. Then, how does Parker tell if it is a pen with a Lifetime Guarantee? By overall style, not just by cap band.

 

C. As you can see in photo catalog, Why did prices significantly different in similar pens except band or rings?

This is a similar question to question A. I have the same answer as above.

 

(*) Footnote. Many, many less that I have and I have analized

You don't know me personally. You don't know how many pens I own. You don't know how many pens I've seen. You don't know how many catalogs I own. You don't know how many ads I've seen. You have no idea what I've read, learned, discussed, and analyzed. You have no basis for comparison.

 

so I´ve spoken for the first time or almost about vacs, so, from memory:

- meaning of points in two digits period imprint.

I will admit this was new information for me when you presented it. It is a good theory but I have not seen supporting proof for it.

 

- Different thread blind cap celluloid/metal.

Could you please point me to what you mean? If you are trying to say that you are the first one to notice blind caps with metal threads, then you are mistaken.

 

- Subdivisión of first plain feather clip.

This is old news.

 

- 1938 pre BD Parker Lifetime Guarantee.

You're not the first one to bring this up. It is clear in the catalog.

 

- Differents chevron bands, as you know now.

I knew this before you mentioned it in this thread. You certainly were not the first to discuss it.

 

- Lazard´s vacumatic scheme.

You mean the scheme where you incorrectly identified Slender Maximas? I think I remember that one.

 

- Variations in the MADE IN USA vacs imprint

You'll have to show me your discussion on this. I don't recall seeing it, though I am very much aware of different variations of the imprint.

 

- 400 Parker pre ´50 ads.

Thank you for compiling these and sharing them with us. Where did they come from? Are they your ads, or are they ads you gathered from other sources?

 

ah! Meaning or sense of the chevron band.

A point which we are discussing and to which I have already presented examples that cast doubt on your "meaning" Edited November 17, 2015 by BrianMcQueen

[Lazard 20]

Brian, I have more catalog that you because I´ve send, free for you by the way, catalog that you dont had. Do you remember or I attached copy of your PM? and you also don´t know a few days ago the Parker 50 anniversary catalog where they present in 1938 the Lifetime guarantee in pens with chevron band.

 

I forget that I take apart many vacs annually... demonstrable.

 

Ah! I forgot too that I've also written chapters about disappearance of BD

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/251972-blue-diamonds-autopsy/

 

And I´m own, discoverer and driver research of a prototipe Vacumatic only and exclusive in the world (that I didn´t want to change for a LOTS of "simples" vacs)

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/257798-a-vacumatic-from-another-world/

 

Of course this does not give me other reasons, but nobody can doubt that I am one of the people in this forum who more and best, except some little error, have dissected the Vacumatic. Another thing is that you, or a few others, do not please it.

Edited November 17, 2015 by Lazard 20

[Lazard 20]

Lazard -

 

When did Parker first offer a Lifetime guarantee on some Vacumatic models?

 

--Daniel

 

You know when Parker offer Lifetime guarantee on some vac, $8.75 and up, models as well as I do but better. You dont need to ask

Edited November 17, 2015 by Lazard 20

[kirchh]

 

1) You are with me, preciselly Debutante have too "chevron" band, more little and some different but chevron... and curiosly Sub-Deb non_guaranteed and less expensive, ring (without chevron) .

 

 

 

1) Yes but you're confused because there are not 2 but 6 or 7 differents chevron cap band design in vacs and, by the way, all with Lifetime guaranteed, Debutante included.

 

I probably missed this, but can you show the catalog image that states that Debutante pens have a Lifetime guarantee in 1938?

 

Thanks.

 

--Daniel

[kirchh]

 

You know when Parker offer Lifetime guarantee on some vac, $8.75 and up, models as well as I do but better. You dont need to ask

 

I don't have as much interest in Vacumatic history as do you, and it is you who are trying to make a case for your deductions, so please state your belief for when Parker started offering Lifetime guarantees on some Vacumatics, and post the specific evidence for that belief, so everyone reading this topic will know what your position is.

 

Thanks.

 

--Daniel

[Lazard 20]

1) I probably missed this, but can you show the catalog image that states that Debutante pens have a Lifetime guarantee in 1938?

 

2) I don't have as much interest in Vacumatic history as do you, and it is you who are trying to make a case for your deductions, so please state your belief for when Parker started offering Lifetime guarantees on some Vacumatics, and post the specific evidence for that belief, so everyone reading this topic will know what your position is.

 

Thanks.

 

--Daniel

 

1) Why would cost more this small pen that a higher Standard if not due to the fact that Debutante are Lifetime and Standard do not.? So as to in pag 6 of 1938 catalog there are pens Guaranteed for Life at $8.75 and up separate by a line of others pens below at $7.50 and less non guaranteed. Debutante pens at $8.75 are in guaranteed group and above this line. Adicionally confirmed by 1948 Parker relationship where only have Debutantes in Blue Diamond pens... there aren´t Debutantes in Non Blue Diamond pens. Resume: Debutante have price as guaranteed, chevron band as guaranteed, are in guaranteed group in catalog and it allways is a Blue Diamond pen accordding with Parker relationship. If you are in doubt it is because you want.

 

2) You´re welcome, but I think just now my position about when Parker offer Guarantee Lifetime in ringed vac with chevron band at $8.75 and up is not matter I was just now interested in demonstrate that it was before 1939 BD and have provided pages of 1938 catalog which are guaranteed pens with chevron band at $8.75 and up and that this Lifetime guarantee followed with chevron band when BD appears as everyone can see in catalogs and ads although may be some possible rare exception that proves the rule. I don´t need prove anything more at this time.

 

I´ve I dump enough info about catalog, ads, and Parker docs that I repeat finally again below and Brian has been a tough opponent, so that there is more than enough information for people interested can forms their opinion but each one has to form his own opinion. We see in other topic.

 

The key question is:

 

Parker needed to go provisioning gradually, not abruptly, to their dealers pens guaranteed because if they do it abruptly dealers could not sell their non-guaranteed stocks. But Parker needed to distinguish these pens prior guaranteed to official release of the guarantee finally with BD of others non-guaranted. How did they do it? Elemental, providing them with chevron band and leaving the rings for non-guaranted. Ingenious, right?

 

 

There are countless evidence that implies:

 

Chevron cap band = Lifetime Guaranteed and Rings cap band = Non-guaranteed Lifetime

and

Parker vac $8.75 and up was Lifetime guaranted since 1937, two years before Blue Diamond.

 

Another thing is that no one has put it together untill now, but let see:

 

BY PARKER´S 1948 RELATIONSHIP

 

These pen are Blue Diamond (have Lifetime Guarantee)

 

Speedline Senior Maxima ("Maxima") $10.- first VAC band and from 1937 4Q with chevron band

Speedline Maxima ("Slender Maxima") $10.- first VAC band and from 1937 4Q with chevron band

Speedlime Major ("Major") $8.75 first VAC band and from 1937 4Q with chevron band

 

These pen are non Blue Diamond (don´t have Lifetime Guarantee)

 

Standard $7.50 this one have rings

Juniorette $5.00 this one have rings.

 

 

BY ADS.

 

-Untill August 1937. We see 3 models all non-guaranted and all with rings caps:

Oversize $10,- with rings

Standard $7.50, with rings, and

Junior $5,- with rings.

 

-From August 1937. Parker extends the range so as to we can see or infer now 5 models. 3 at $8.75 and up all with chevron band and 2 at $7.50 and less both with rings.

Speedline Senior Maxima ("Maxima") $10.- first VAC band and from 1937 4Q with chevron band

Speedline Maxima ("Slender Maxima") $10.- first VAC band and from 1937 4Q with chevron band

Speedlime Major ("Major") $8.75 first VAC band and from 1937 4Q with chevron band

Standard $7.50 this one continues with rings

Juniorette $5.00 this one continues with rings.

 

-After Blue Diamond appears in 1939:

 

All vacs pens with chevron bands have Lifetime guarantee.

All vacs pens with rings don´t have Lifetime guarantee.

 

BY CATALOGS.

 

Into 1938, !a excellent opportunity for present their Lifetime guarantee!, with Semi-Centennial Jubilee Catalog 5435 reliably dated in September ´38 we can see:

 

A/ Models $8.75 and up with chevron band and expressly Lifetime guaranted.

B/ Models $7.50 and less with rings and expressly non-guaranted Lifetime.

C/ Desk model with chevron band and expreslly Lifetime guaranted.

 

Into 1939 when BD appears and further vacs catalogs

 

All vacs pens with chevron bands have Lifetime guarantee.

All vacs pens with rings don´t have Lifetime guarantee.

Edited November 17, 2015 by Lazard 20

[kirchh]

Lazard -

 

So you don't know when Parker started offering a Lifetime guarantee on some Vacumatics? And therefore you can't say that the guarantee corresponds with chevron bands?

 

--Daniel

[kirchh]

2) Not only 1938; 1937 also have a guaranteed with chevron band.

 

Did you post the catalog or ad showing this? I must have missed it. Can you re-post an image of the catalog or ad from 1937 showing that some Vacumatics have a lifetime guarantee (or at least provide a link to the post where you show that picture)?

 

Thanks.

--Daniel

[Brian-McQueen]

Lazard, I see you took an opportunity to attempt to belittle and discredit me instead of answering my questions. I will respond to your attack, but I would still like you to answer my questions. It seems as though Daniel Kirchheimer has similar questions as I do.

 

Brian, I have more catalog that you because I´ve send, free for you by the way, catalog that you dont had. Do you remember or I attached copy of your PM?

You did not send it to me. I gave you the email address to send it to, but I never received it.

 

and you also don´t know a few days ago the Parker 50 anniversary catalog where they present in 1938 the Lifetime guarantee in pens with chevron band.

Excuse me, but that catalog has been in the PCA archives for years. I have had access to it and have known about it for quite some time. So have plenty of other people.

 

I forget that I take apart many vacs annually... demonstrable.

As do I.

 

And I´m own, discoverer and driver research of a prototipe Vacumatic only and exclusive in the world (that I didn´t want to change for a LOTS of "simples" vacs)

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/257798-a-vacumatic-from-another-world/

You mean the pen that is discussed in the Parker Vacumatic book, which was published 5 years before your post?

 

You don't know which Vacs I have and do not have, so I will enlighten you of some of the not-so-simple Vacs I own.

Do you have a late Canadian OS with a single thin cap band? I do.

Do you have an OverMax? I do.

Do you have a Sub-Maxima? I have 2.

Do you have a 9K wide cap band Golden Web? I do.

Do you have a Silver Pearl 1952 Canadian Major with gold trim? I do.

Do you have a longitudinally striped black OS? I do.

Do you have a ringtop Vacuum Filler pencil? I do.

Do you have a Vacufold imprinted "Loaned By Parker Pen"? I do.

Do you have a Ripley's pencil from 1939? I do.

Do you have a Ripley's Pen? I do. I have one imprinted Vacumatic and one imprinted Vacuum Filler.

Do you have a demonstrator? I do. One like a Crystal, one cutaway.

Do you have a black Vacuum Filler set with silver trim? I do.

Do you have a Pontiac Service Craftsman Vac? I do.

 

I think these are not such "simple" pens, are they?

 

Do you have copies of the 1932 Proxys? I do.

Do you have copies of the letters Arthur Dahlberg sent to Parker (and Sheaffer and Conklin and others)? I do.

Do you have a copy of the letter Parker sent to Dahlberg explaining why the name Golden Arrow was abandoned? I do.

Please stop assuming what I have or haven't read, or what documents I have or have not access to.

 

Of course this does not give me other reasons, but nobody can doubt that I am one of the people in this forum who more and best, except some little error, have dissected the Vacumatic. Another thing is that you, or a few others, do not please it.

The person who shouts the loudest is not always right, nor is he necessarily the most knowledgeable. Edited November 17, 2015 by BrianMcQueen

[kirchh]

C. As you can see in photo catalog, Why did prices significantly different in similar pens except band or rings?

 

Do you mean to compare the Major and the Junior?

 

--Daniel

[kirchh]

1) Why would cost more this small pen that a higher Standard if not due to the fact that Debutante are Lifetime and Standard do not.?

 

Newer styling, perhaps.

 

So as to in pag 6 of 1938 catalog there are pens Guaranteed for Life at $8.75 and up separate by a line of others pens below at $7.50 and less non guaranteed. Debutante pens at $8.75 are in guaranteed group and above this line

 

What does the text say about which models of pens are guaranteed for life?

 

Parker vac $8.75 and up was Lifetime guaranted since 1937

 

I must have missed this. What is your 1937 catalog or ad reference showing lifetime guaranteed Vacumatic models?

 

--Daniel

[Lazard 20]

1) You did not send it to me. I gave you the email address to send it to, but I never received it.

 

 

 

1) Sure? I send it on October, 2014. clic on photo for more resolution.

 

http://s13.postimg.org/4tgr5j9x3/robertnfrappuls.jpg

Edited November 17, 2015 by Lazard 20

[kirchh]

Brian, I have more catalog that you because I´ve send, free for you by the way, catalog that you dont had.

 

Even assuming arguendo that you had one catalog that Brian did not have, it does not logically follow that therefore you have more Parker documentation than Brian has. He might have catalogs or other Parker materials that you do not have. Therefore, he might have more documents than you have, even if you have one document that he does not have. It's logic.

 

--Daniel

[kirchh]

Anyway, Lazard, what does the text in the 1938 catalog say about which models of pens are guaranteed for life?

 

Also, what is your 1937 catalog or ad reference showing lifetime guaranteed Vacumatic models?

 

--Daniel

[Lazard 20]

 

I must have missed this. What is your 1937 catalog or ad reference showing lifetime guaranteed Vacumatic models?

 

 

In 1937 appears Senior Maxima, Maxima and Major streamlined at $8.75 and up with chevron band. Parker relationship Posted 07 November 2015 - 10:10 say that this are Blue Diamond pens.

[Lazard 20]

By the way, among the abundant documentation that you and Brian say to have, do you have Parker docs that contradicts what I am saying? ...

[Brian-McQueen]

1) Sure? I send it on October, 2014. clic on photo for more resolution.

http://s13.postimg.org/4tgr5j9x3/robertnfrappuls.jpg

You may have sent it, but it didn't make it to me. Maybe SPAM filters or something. Anyway, we should get back to the regular discussion.

 

In case they got lost in the thread, here are the last questions I posed:

1) What attribute do you think makes the 1937 Major, Slender Maxima, and Maxima more expensive?

2) Do you think Parker would have given pens with "Vacumatic" Cap Bands the "Blue Diamond Service" mentioned in the 1948 Parts List?

[Lazard 20]

1) You may have sent it, but it didn't make it to me. Maybe SPAM filters or something. Anyway, we should get back to the regular discussion.

 

In case they got lost in the thread, here are the last questions I posed:

1) What attribute do you think makes the 1937 Major, Slender Maxima, and Maxima more expensive?

2) Do you think Parker would have given pens with "Vacumatic" Cap Bands the "Blue Diamond Service" mentioned in the 1948 Parts List?

 

1)... after you say me thanks for send you free the 1939 Catalog. It is not like this?

 

1 and 2) No, no. I was asking and you have not responded yet -quid pro quo, now my turn to ask-:

 

A/ Among the abundant documentation that you say to have, do you have Parker docs that contradicts what I am saying in this post? Only a rare pen? ¿No more pens? No Parker docs?

 

B/ What attribute have the 1937-38 pens with chevron band that doesn´t have the those years pens with 3 rings cap for to be significantly more expensive?

C/ If Parker not recognized the Lifetime of non-Lifetime pens trought the cap band, how you do think they recognize this?

 

D/ As you can see in photo catalog, Why did prices significantly different in similar pens except band or rings?

 

When you give me thanks for 1939 catalog (if it is true that not received, it's not my fault if you have not properly configured your mail) and answer this above mentioned questions you will be entitled to ask me questions.

Edited November 17, 2015 by Lazard 20

[kirchh]

 

In 1937 appears Senior Maxima, Maxima and Major streamlined at $8.75 and up with chevron band. Parker relationship Posted 07 November 2015 - 10:10 say that this are Blue Diamond pens.

 

There's no Blue Diamond in 1937.

 

What is your documentation from 1937 showing that some Vacumatics had a lifetime guarantee at the time? If you don't have any, just say you don't have any.

 

--Daniel