One Vacumatic Less Usual

[Lazard 20]

Parker never said that the star was for lifetime guarantee, so they started using the star clips on Juniors, Shadow Waves, Stramlined Standards, and Streamlined Slenders during 1940-1941.

 

I don´t know if Parker relationed their ubiquitous five-star with Lifetime guarantee, but I´m going take advantage to entertain a little with the "urban legend" that relate the birth of Parker´s Lifetime guarantee only with the Blue Diamond.

 

Let´s see:

 

You said on 02 November 2015 - 19:50: "The star clip should have ended in 1939", So we agree that there was a 5-pointed star before the Blue Diamond about 1938 and much of the year 1939 minimum until the appearance in 1939 of Blue Diamond. Simple, right? let's keep going:

 

I know that in 1938, a year before the appearance of Blue Diamond, had Vacumatic LIFETIME guaranteed. How differentiate Parker during 1938 and 1939 those with Lifetime warranty that cheaper lines non guaranteed?

 

By 5-pointed star clip, by chevron band, by what other feature?

 

I say nothing, in this particular paragraph, I just ask.

 

http://s18.postimg.org/ayqd4cd49/Parker_1938_Guaranteed_for_Life.jpg

 

 

In any case we have evidence, also from 1938, of Parker guarantee for Life that is related to the 5-pointed star, or the chevron band, or ...

 

http://s1.postimg.org/n1pcqr1ov/Parker_1938_September_Guaranteed_for_Life.jpg

 

 

 

 

Anyway, at least since 1929, 10 years before BD,

 

 

http://s1.postimg.org/vp848sf9r/Parker_Duofold_guaranteed_Life_Lazard.jpg

Edited November 5, 2015 by Lazard 20

[Brian-McQueen]

 

1) In fact, It exist and these Laminatet Jet and Silver Pearl are the most frequent colors and much less frecuent emerald and burgundy.

 

Yes, that is what I said. It exists. I have a black one.

[Brian-McQueen]

In any case we have evidence, also from 1938, of Parker guarantee for Life that is related to the 5-pointed star, or the chevron band, or ...

 

http://s1.postimg.org/n1pcqr1ov/Parker_1938_September_Guaranteed_for_Life.jpg

 

I forgot about that ad. I guess it might imply that the star goes with the lifetime guarantee.

Edited November 5, 2015 by BrianMcQueen

[Lazard 20]

 

Yes, that is what I said. It exists. I have a black one.

 

Yes, I have not discussed this point because that's nothing new to me I already knew this, in fact those 4 upload today are mine long time ago as you can see here pag 2. (I´m aka LittleWirt too)

[Lazard 20]

 

I forgot about that ad. I guess it might imply that the star goes with the lifetime guarantee.

 

Also knowing that Duofold Streamline were Guaranteed for Life, these five-pointed stars in the Duofold Streamline nibs make us think.

 

http://s17.postimg.org/feiivphyn/PARKER_ESTRELLA_DE_5_PUNTAS_DUOFOLD_STREAMLINED.jpg

Edited November 5, 2015 by Lazard 20

[Brian-McQueen]

 

Also knowing that Duofold Streamline were Guaranteed for Life, these five-pointed stars in the Duofold Streamline nibs make us think.

 

I think those stars are meant to note replacement nibs. When that service manual and parts list was printed, Duofold nibs were not being made. They used Vacumatic nibs and put a star on them to note their use in Duofolds.

[FarmBoy]

 

I think those stars are meant to note replacement nibs. When that service manual and parts list was printed, Duofold nibs were not being made. They used Vacumatic nibs and put a star on them to note their use in Duofolds.

Brian-

Good luck

Todd

[Brian-McQueen]

Brian-

Good luck

Todd

 

Yes, I know it is one of the great unknowns and a debated topic. The replacement nib is the theory I like best. It is only a theory. I don't have proof. But, nobody has provided proof otherwise, either.

 

In any case, I don't think the star has anything to do with a lifetime guarantee. The Vacumatics that have a lifetime guarantee do not have a star on the nib.

[Lazard 20]

 

1) I think those stars are meant to note replacement nibs. When that service manual and parts list was printed, Duofold nibs were not being made. They used Vacumatic nibs and put a star on them to note their use in Duofolds.

Yes, I know it is one of the great unknowns and a debated topic. The replacement nib is the theory I like best. It is only a theory. I don't have proof. But, nobody has provided proof otherwise, either.

 

2) In any case, I don't think the star has anything to do with a lifetime guarantee. The Vacumatics that have a lifetime guarantee do not have a star on the nib.

 

1) The nacked eye of a vacumatic nib mounted in a Duofold don´t need more explanation or star, is a Parker vacumatic nib in a Parker Duofold. As well the star of the nibs make me think because I don´t see possible useful for Parker to know if it was originally mounted or a spare, I claim nothing about five pointed star engraved on nib.

 

2) On contrary the Vacumatic that have lifetime guarantee in 1938 and middle 1939 don´t have Blue Diamond which appeared after.

In this years we see caps with chevron band and with 3 rings as "junior streamlined" so, I wonder; Was, in years previous to BD, chevron band which helped to recognize Parker vacs guaranteed for life?

 

I do not claim anything just now. It is only for those who like to think.

Edited November 6, 2015 by Lazard 20

[Lazard 20]

Now yes, I´ll to try approach to affirm something.

 

I´m going to present here my old theory that the chevron band in its beginnings, during 1937 and until Blue Diamond appearance in 1939, could have been the hallmark which Parker recognized their Lifetime pens of those other non-Lifetime previous to BD, let´s see:

 

There is a January 1937 Parker report (see Vacumatic book) inclined to consider Lifetime guarantee.

 

In middle 1937 George S. Parker -who by his writings seemed not in favor of Lifetime guarantee- dies.

 

Other manufacturers were offering these Lifetime guarantees.

 

In August 1937 appear "Vacumatic" cap band.

 

At least since 1937 thrid quarter (pens) and little after in 1937 ads we see caps with chevron band (*) existing simultaneously with similar but cheaper pens with 3 rings cap.

 

As I have shown with docs in previous posts of this topis we know that before the appearance of Blue Diamond had vacumatic Lifetime guaranteed.

 

We see in this other document (clic on photo for higher resolution) where same pens with chevron band is higher-priced than the same pen with 3 rings.

 

What attribute have the 1937-38 pens with chevron band that doesn´t have the those years pens with 3 rings cap for to be significantly more expensive?

 

¿Lifetime Guarantee, maybe?

 

http://s24.postimg.org/e16tq2bth/Parker_vacumatic_catalog_Lazard.jpg

Footnote: Ringed vacumatic in the 40s, and while there was BD clip, Parker distinguished Lifetime ringed vacumatic of non-Lifetime not only with the clip (BD vs non-BD) but also with the chevron band because the Lifetime mounted chevron band and non-Lifetime, as Junior, rings.

 

* With minor variations of what would be the chevron band after BD.

Edited November 6, 2015 by Lazard 20

[Ron Z]

 

 

¿Lifetime Guarantee, maybe?

 

I think that's a stretch.

[Lazard 20]

 

I think that's a stretch.

 

You forgot answer this other question:

 

A. What attribute have the 1937-38 pens with chevron band that doesn´t have the those years pens with 3 rings cap for to be significantly more expensive?

and these others as a result of your thought expressed:

 

B. If Parker not recognized the Lifetime of non-Lifetime pens trought the cap band, how you do think they recognize this?

 

C. As you can see in photo catalog, Why did prices significantly different in similar pens except band or rings?

Edited November 6, 2015 by Lazard 20

[FarmBoy]

I think someone should write this all up in article form and submit it to the PCA for review and publication.

[joss]

I think someone should write this all up in article form and submit it to the PCA for review and publication.

 

That is a great idea.

 

I am following this thread with great interest. Lazard 20 raises pertinent questions but clearly other experts here (e.g. Brian, Todd & others) must have addressed these issues before.

 

So it would be great if your opinions could result in some 'consensus' paper that differentiates knowledge from belief in this matter (stars, blue diamonds and Lifetime Guarantee).

[Lazard 20]

More clues for think:

 

1/. "Blue Diamond" in the relationship below reproduced means "Lifetime Guarantee".. because there aren´t Duofold Sr. nor Junior nor Lady with BD clip but with Lifetime Guarantee and its are in BD pens group, ok?

 

2/. If Sr. Maxima, Maxima and Major (chevron band) pre-1939 was non Lifetime, should have Senior Maxima, Maxima and Major (pre BD) in Non-Lifetime group but it are not.

 

3/. This Parker´s relationship means that all Major are guaranteed because there aren´t Major in non-Lifetime group but there are Major (chevron band) pre-BD.

4/. Parker employees seems set Lifetime guarantee border between lockdown and extended type -coinciding also with the emergence of chevron band- (1937) and not between extended type clip non-BD and extended type clip BD (1939).

 

http://s17.postimg.org/mg2crx9of/Parker_vacumatic_Liftime_Non_Lifetime_pre_Blue_D.jpg

http://s17.postimg.org/aus6k7o73/Parker_vacumatic_Liftime_Non_Lifetime_Blue_Diamo.jpg

Edited November 7, 2015 by Lazard 20

[joss]

Lazard, can you specify the origin of the BD vs non-BD list of pens and importantly: in which year it was published? Since it mentions VS pens it must be > 1946.

 

I am surprised that even the Heirloom and Heritage 51 are listed as non-BD pen, is that the 51 Vacumatic vs the 51 Aerometric non-BD? If so, the list is even later than 1946.

 

But then: if it is a late 1940s - early 1950s list, why are the lockdown Vacs still mentioned here as these were not commercially available anymore at that time.

 

The 1940s striped Duofolds were available as a BD pen, both "sacless" and button filler: that could explain why they are in the BD list.

[Lazard 20]

1) Lazard, can you specify the origin of the BD vs non-BD list of pens and importantly: in which year it was published? Since it mentions VS pens it must be > 1946.

2) I am surprised that even the Heirloom and Heritage 51 are listed as non-BD pen, is that the 51 Vacumatic vs the 51 Aerometric non-BD? If so, the list is even later than 1946.

3) But then: if it is a late 1940s - early 1950s list, why are the lockdown Vacs still mentioned here as these were not commercially available anymore at that time.

4) The 1940s striped Duofolds were available as a BD pen, both "sacless" and button filler: that could explain why they are in the BD list.

 

1/. 1948 Parker Parts Price List.

 

2/. 1948 Parker pens have clip without BD, "51" Signet, Heritage and Heirloom included. Parker Lifetime guarantee was died in 1948 (addicionally confirmed with the disappearance of Blue Diamond ads from 1947 second half). If you're interested I wrote here -clic in the link below- a couple of years ago about this subject.

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/251972-blue-diamonds-autopsy/

 

3/. No commercially available but are likely to be repaired, so employees must be able to distinguish those whom were covered by guarantee and which weren´t.

 

4/. Normal. Striped Duofold Senior and slimmer Duofold Ingenue, both $8.75 retail, was guaranted for the life. On the other hand striped Duofold Major and Duofold Debutante, both $5.00 retail, and Sacless Duofold and Sacless Duofold Sub-Deb, both $3.95 retail, wasn´t guaranted.

Edited November 7, 2015 by Lazard 20

[FarmBoy]

That is a great idea.

 

I am following this thread with great interest. Lazard 20 raises pertinent questions but clearly other experts here (e.g. Brian, Todd & others) must have addressed these issues before.

 

So it would be great if your opinions could result in some 'consensus' paper that differentiates knowledge from belief in this matter (stars, blue diamonds and Lifetime Guarantee).

I too am waiting to see that draft.

[joss]

I am regularly lost in your argumentation, also because of the scattered evidence that you provide.

 

So do I understand your hypothesis right:

1. the Duofold pens on page 26-30 of the 1948 Parker parts price list are early 1930s streamlined Duofolds (these are shown in your reply #25 above)

2. these pens are listed as being "blue diamond pens" on the contents page, although these pens obviously never had a BD on the clip

3. you then hypothesize that the "blue diamond" of these pens may refer to the star on the nib

 

Did I follow you right?

 

- then the pictures of the 1930s streamlined Duofolds that are listed as being "non blue diamond pens" (page 80-86 of the parts price list) show nibs without such a star?

 

- does this mean that the nib had to be removed from these pens in order to confirm the client that his/her pen had lifetime guarantee?

 

- is the list not simply a list of Parker pens (BD and non BD) for which parts were available in that moment (1948). I mean: where is the reference to Lifetime Guarantee in this list?

[Lazard 20]

I am regularly lost in your argumentation, also because of the scattered evidence that you provide.

 

So do I understand your hypothesis right:

 

1. the Duofold pens on page 26-30 of the 1948 Parker parts price list are early 1930s streamlined Duofolds (these are shown in your reply #25 above)

2. these pens are listed as being "blue diamond pens" on the contents page, although these pens obviously never had a BD on the clip

3. you then hypothesize that the "blue diamond" of these pens may refer to the star on the nib

 

Did I follow you right?

 

- then the pictures of the 1930s streamlined Duofolds that are listed as being "non blue diamond pens" (page 80-86 of the parts price list) show nibs without such a star?

 

- does this mean that the nib had to be removed from these pens in order to confirm the client that his/her pen had lifetime guarantee?

 

- is the list not simply a list of Parker pens (BD and non BD) for which parts were available in that moment (1948). I mean: where is the reference to Lifetime Guarantee in this list?

 

1/ Not, I only say that these Duofold Streamline have Lifetime guarantee y that Parker assimilates in this relationship Lifetime guarantee as "Blue Diamond Pens".

 

2/ Yes.

 

3/ No, Forget now the star (I said first: "By 5-pointed star clip, by chevron band, by what other feature?" I said after that "I claim nothing about five pointed star engraved on nib" so that only left chevron band or other feature).

 

I summarize now. My hypothesis is that in 1938/39 pre Blue Diamond:

 

chevron cap band = Lifetime guarantee and rings caps = Non-Lifetime guarantee.

 

From which it follows that Parker used the Lifetime guarantee in vacumatics (with chevron cap bands) long before the Blue Diamond and distinguished this Lifetime guarantee with the chevron cap band.

 

Because,

 

I) We have in Parker semi-centennial jubilee 1938 catalog, Maxima and Major at $10.- and $8.75 with chevron band and clip non BD (BD is later, from second half 1939) where Parker says its are Guaranteed for Life, so undoubtedly, the Lifetime guarantee existed in vacumatics before BD appearance.

 

II) We have a Parker relationship where Maxima and Sr. Maxima extended type are "Blue Diamond Pens" and we have Maxima and Sr. Maxima (chevron band+non BD clip) before BD clip, and

 

III) We have a Parker relationship where all Major are "Blue Diamond Pens" and we have Major (chevron band+non BD clip) before BD clip.

Edited November 8, 2015 by Lazard 20