What Is The Pilot Custom 823 Made Of?

[Megaloblatta]

  On 10/3/2015 at 1:07 AM, AltecGreen said:

I think you fail to understand that polycarbonate is not a single specific plastic. It is a name for a group of related polymers that, not surprisingly, contain a carbonate groups. The exact properties can be adjusted in the formulation and still be a polycarbonate. Thus, the properties can depend on the grade of material used. For example, the cockpit of the F-22 fighter is made from a single piece of polycarbonate and is quite strong. Polycarbonate is also used in making bulletproof glass. In general polycarbonate has high strength but low resistance to scratches. Acrylic is more brittle but has higher optical transparency and higher scratch resistance. You get what you pay for. One potential problem with polycarbonate is that is it known to be susceptible to stress corrosion cracking when attacked by another chemical. Polycarbonate is sensitive to attack by alkalis but not acids.

I am well aware of that (I am a scientist - although admittedly not a chemist). I was contrasting polycarbonates vs acrylics - two different groups of polymers with different properties. Obviously there is a degree of variation of material properties within each group.

 

There must be a reason why there is a high incidence of cracking in TWSBIs and Pilot 823s relative to, for example, the Pilot 92. I thought it might be simply due to the type of plastic used, but the more I read about plastics the less straightforward it all seems! Perhaps the cracking issue with plastic pens has less to do with what type of plastic they are made from than their production methods, applied coatings etc? Someone must have a definitive answer...

Edited October 3, 2015 by Megaloblatta

[dfo]

  On 10/3/2015 at 7:34 PM, Megaloblatta said:

I am well aware of that (I am a scientist - although admittedly not a chemist). I was contrasting polycarbonates vs acrylics - two different groups of polymers with different properties. Obviously there is a degree of variation of material properties within each group.

 

There must be a reason why there is a high incidence of cracking in TWSBIs and Pilot 823s relative to, for example, the Pilot 92. I thought it might be simply due to the type of plastic used, but the more I read about plastics the less straightforward it all seems! Perhaps the cracking issue with plastic pens has less to do with what type of plastic they are made from than their production methods, applied coatings etc? Someone must have a definitive answer...

 

I think you are on to something. It probably has more to do with the stress prone areas rooted in how the pen was designed and molded. Molding any kind of intricate plastic piece will create these weak areas. (I worked in an industrial setting for five years). However, you must admit that there are very little accounted instances of Pilot 823s cracking outside of those caused by disassembly. Not saying that cracking does not occur, but that it seems to be a minor issue.

Edited October 3, 2015 by dfo

[Algester]

I would take it they use the same plastic as the ones found on the CH92 which are "brittle" plastics trust me I have handled worst with my plamos :<

I would say against all odds prevent this pen from being dropped else problems will arise as I found out with my Heritage 91

plus its a vac filler I cant say about how sturdy the barrel is when someone is manipulating the plunger while capped something has got to give I'm not sure if the same applies to piston fillers since there's still vacuum involved

and in the past before Pilot updated their products list 823 was listed with a resin barrel take that what you will

Edited October 6, 2015 by Algester

[parnesh]

  On 10/3/2015 at 11:14 PM, dfo said:

 

I think you are on to something. It probably has more to do with the stress prone areas rooted in how the pen was designed and molded. Molding any kind of intricate plastic piece will create these weak areas. (I worked in an industrial setting for five years). However, you must admit that there are very little accounted instances of Pilot 823s cracking outside of those caused by disassembly. Not saying that cracking does not occur, but that it seems to be a minor issue.

 

Yeah I think this is it. When I try a full stroke of the piston on my 823, it takes a lot of pressure. Some of this pressure is transferred onto the body if it is not held properly.

[steelblue]

I also suspect we seldom hear the whole story about reports of cracking - I'm glad I haven't avoided pens like the 823 based on these reports because I'd have missed out on some amazing pens. May change my tune eventually but my previous 823 was flawless despite frequent trips above 15,000 feet and never gave me any trouble. I almost skipped it after reading about ink starvation etc but just hasn't occurred at all.

[ItwasLuck]

Guys the Pilot 823 is made out of PMMA, It is resistant to alkalines so this is why there is no problems using Iroshizuku inks in the 823 despite having a pH of over 9.

 

After reading most posts about actual cracking issues it can be inferred that those who disassemble the pen will have cracking issues and this is mainly due to user error where the person usually over tightens the barrel when reassembling.

 

For those wanting to know if it will crack in normal use. Basically if you don't disassemble the pen (idk why you should considering it'll void your warranty), then you should not worry about cracking issues.

 

As for people comparing it to the TWSBI Vac-700 please there is no comparison. You are comparing a very well designed and researched product made by the biggest manufacturer of pens in Japan to a company made in Taiwan that sell products which are what I would call almost carbon copies of the originals.

 

The Vac-700 is a decent pen I'm not trying to say otherwise, I actually recommend it to new users including my own brother. But when it comes down to it you really can't compare the two pens. The only similarity is the filling mechanism and that's it. Apart from that the fit and finish of the 823 is miles ahead of the TWSBI not to mention the nib and feed can't even be compared between the two. If you ever buy the 823 with the medium nib, know that you will have an amazingly smooth writing experience with just enough spring to the nib to give the pen some character that is really not present if you just look at the pen superficially. The pen is quite bland but hey i love it, it's simple and classy.

 

There was a review by someone who basically said the 823 could theoretically be the only fountain pen you own. And I will attest to that statement.

Ofc for people like me that love splurging on unnecessary luxuries, this pen is not my only pen but it is the one pen I'll always use when I'm down to do some real work.

It is truly a workhorse of a pen! It is my every day care whether I'm signing prescriptions to patients or just writing out my thoughts at home, it's the pen I'll always go back to.

Edited October 17, 2016 by ItwasLuck

[JunkyardSam]

When I got my 823 it was love at first sight except for one issue: having to unscrew the blind cap. That gap at the top of the pen distracted me endlessly. It just didn't seem... right.

 

I also don't like the threads where the blind cap screws onto the pen. They seem very delicate -- like they're not quite as safe and secure as the pen cap threads or threads in a typical Pilot section.

 

So... I followed Goulet's video advice on how to remove the conical o-ring at the base of the post:

http://blog.gouletpens.com/2013/03/removing-vacuum-filler-pen-o-rings.html

 

Now the 823 functions beautifully as a "normal pen." No more messing with the blind cap except when I need to refill (which isn't often thanks to that magnificent ink capacity.) And there's no gap!

 

So my point in all this is to say -- the desire to disassemble an 823 isn't really "crazy." A lot of people feel the pens function better without that blind cap seal.

 

That said... I do hope I didn't overtighten after reading this thread. =)

Edited October 17, 2016 by JunkyardSam

[Jezza]

I don't have the credentials to weigh-in on the differences between plastics. However, I have owned 5 Pilot 823's over the years, and they are all excellent pens. I never had a problem with cracking or anything else (admittedly, I never took the pens apart, either). My only Vac 700 is one of the first generation that had ink starvation issues. It also shows some stress cracking in the plastic around the feed. As some one else pointed out, I think the real outstanding quality about the Pilot 823 is the big #15 nib. It's outstanding, and it's the best reason to grab a Custom 823. If the vac filler give you concern, then I would recommend the Custom 743. It's a solid black, cartridge/converter version of the 823 essentially, but with a staggering selection of nibs. My favourite nib is the #15 soft fine. It's similar to a Visconti Dream Touch, but not so spongy.

[jar]

Toads and snails and puppy dog tails ...

[ehemem]

  On 10/19/2016 at 5:17 PM, jar said:

Toads and snails and puppy dog tails ...

 

Ack! You beat me to it!

[Drone]

  On 10/19/2016 at 2:36 PM, Jezza said:

I don't have the credentials to weigh-in on the differences between plastics. However, I have owned 5 Pilot 823's over the years, and they are all excellent pens. I never had a problem with cracking or anything else (admittedly, I never took the pens apart, either). My only Vac 700 is one of the first generation that had ink starvation issues. It also shows some stress cracking in the plastic around the feed. As some one else pointed out, I think the real outstanding quality about the Pilot 823 is the big #15 nib. It's outstanding, and it's the best reason to grab a Custom 823. If the vac filler give you concern, then I would recommend the Custom 743. It's a solid black, cartridge/converter version of the 823 essentially, but with a staggering selection of nibs. My favourite nib is the #15 soft fine. It's similar to a Visconti Dream Touch, but not so spongy.

 

I own both the Pilot 823 and the 743. The two pens are physically almost identical and both use Pilot's largest #15 size nib. In the end the 743 was the winner for me by a long shot.

 

The 743 is so much easier to fill and clean, there's no fiddling with the filler knob just to write, the 743 has no history of cracking, the CON-70 pump converter works flawlessly, plus my 743 has the semi-flex FA nib which is (inexplicably) not normally available on the 823. (Actually I have seen one Japanese pen reseller whose name escapes me offer the 823 with the FA nib, but it was pricey and at the time you had to wait quite a while for it.) The prices of the 823 and 743 are about the same.

 

So I would recommend the Pilot 743 with an FA nib to the O.P. - hands down.

[rutherfordr]

There's a store in Tokyo called "Tokyo Pen Shop Quill" that sells the Custom 823 with Falcon (FA) and Waverly (WA) nibs:

 

http://www.japanshop-quill.com/pilot-custom823.htm

 

They also carry the Custom 823 in clear plastic, and translucent black ("smoke") plastic.

 

They're very good at selling overseas, so long as you follow the instructions on their web site.