The "Empire" Pen

[ushat]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/ushat/empire.jpg

 

I'm as sure as I can be that this is a Conway Stewart but I can't prove it at the moment. It doesn't say "Conway Stewart" on it anywhere. In appearance, shape and style it's a CS and there are references elsewhere to a Conway Stewart "Empire" pen, always with a warranted nib as this has, numbered 611, 46 and 112. The Conway Stewart book doesn't help here, sadly.

 

Instead of the trade-mark semi-cursive "The Conway Stewart" imprint this pen has

 

THE "EMPIRE" PEN

NO 411

 

in very plain roman capital lettering. The ball-ended clip bears a fleur-de-lis and the lever has a tiny vertically-hatched heart. At the bottom of the pen, running round the barrel is "Made In England" in the same position and lettering as other Conway Stewarts such as the 388 and 55 have it.

[Phroneo]

Hello, Ushat,

 

I've looked at Jonathan Donahaye's site at http://www.prog2kill.com/ConwayStewart and Max Davis's site at http://www.prog2kill.com/ConwayStewart/ re: Empire. I saw nothing on Jonathan Donahaye's site that resembled your pen or refered to an Empire pen by Conway Stewart. He had no listing under 411 or 611 for that matter.

 

Max Davis shows a few Empire pens and refers to them as 611 CS pens. As I said previously, Donahaye does not list a 611 CS pen. Conway Stewart did not use a fleur-de-lis on its pens. They used a CS monogram. If it were a Conway Stewart fountain pen, the nib would be marked Conway Stewart, the barrel wold have some type of Conway Stewart designation, and the CS mongram would be on the clip and lever. About the nib, it would also have a heart cutout in the middle back part of the nib.

 

You have a nice looking pen, but I don't beleive that it is a Conway Stewart. I hope that someone might prove me wrong about this.

[ushat]

You may well be right. I'm not committed to this being a Conway Stewart though, frankly, I think it is. I did check the sites you refer to with the same results as you found. Both sites are the product of excellent and assiduous research but are not the final word on the matter. As Delahaye says, "New numbers still frequently turn up." In other words, if you find your pen therein that's a nice confirmation but it's far from being comprehensive and is certainly not exclusive. If the final story of Conway Stewart is ever to be told it is still some way in the future.

 

It is by no means the case that all Conway Stewarts came with Conway Stewart nibs. The last production runs had American "Smoothline" nibs, for instance. Also, who is to say that this is the nib that the pen started its long life with? Nibs were, back in the day, virtually consumables. They got damaged and were replaced. They were even worn out.

 

Conway Stewart also made pens for other organisations, as did many manufacturers. They were not branded as Conway Stewart but bore the family resemblance as this one does in the type and set of the cap rings, the placing and typeface of "Made in England" and the manufacture and fitting of the clip.

 

It might be - and I only say might - that this pen was made for the British Scouting organisation whose badge was the fleur-de-lis. Baden-Powell and the scouting movement were much enamoured of the concept of Empire which would tie in with the name of this pen and the inclusion of the fleur-de-lis on the clip.

 

I'm in no hurry. If I'm lucky, further research will eventually show what this pen is. That's what's so good about the otherwise pernicious hobby of amassing old pens: the historical challenge. And of course I have a splendidly preactical everyday pen, too!

[Carrie]

It might be - and I only say might - that this pen was made for the British Scouting organisation whose badge was the fleur-de-lis. Baden-Powell and the scouting movement were much enamoured of the concept of Empire which would tie in with the name of this pen and the inclusion of the fleur-de-lis on the clip.

You've got me intrigued as well. Whatever it is, it's certainly a nice pen.

 

The mention of the fleur-de-lis ties in with one of the pens that Jonathan Donahaye has listed here http://www.prog2kill.com/conwaystewart/csb...0.htm#cusempire under CS associated pens.

[ushat]

Oh, *excellent*, Carrie. I'd missed that and it's the same clip pressing.

[Phroneo]

Great work, Carrie. I happily stand corrected and look forward to what new information Ushat finds.

[pensaro]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/ushat/empire.jpg

 

I'm as sure as I can be that this is a Conway Stewart but I can't prove it at the moment. It doesn't say "Conway Stewart" on it anywhere. In appearance, shape and style it's a CS and there are references elsewhere to a Conway Stewart "Empire" pen, always with a warranted nib as this has, numbered 611, 46 and 112. The Conway Stewart book doesn't help here, sadly.

 

Instead of the trade-mark semi-cursive "The Conway Stewart" imprint this pen has

 

THE "EMPIRE" PEN

NO 411

 

in very plain roman capital lettering. The ball-ended clip bears a fleur-de-lis and the lever has a tiny vertically-hatched heart. At the bottom of the pen, running round the barrel is "Made In England" in the same position and lettering as other Conway Stewarts such as the 388 and 55 have it.

 

Did you ever find any further information on The Empire No. 411? I have recently found one in a batch of "junk" pens. It has a Fleur-de-lis (suggesting the Baden-Powell Boy Scout movement) on the clip, a CS lever and a warranted gold nib. Would be interested to find out more about it...

[northlodge]

 

Did you ever find any further information on The Empire No. 411? I have recently found one in a batch of "junk" pens. It has a Fleur-de-lis (suggesting the Baden-Powell Boy Scout movement) on the clip, a CS lever and a warranted gold nib. Would be interested to find out more about it...

 

That is correct. Made by CS for the Scout movement. IIRC the lever should probably be a shaded heart like design

[mallymal1]

I have a couple of 411 pens. Both have the fleur-de-lis clip, lever with a vertically shaded heart logo, and 1st Quality Warranted nibs. The "Empire" Pen range, were made by CS for the Boy Scout Association, through the 1920s and 30s.

 

I have seen examples of Empire Pen models with the CS logo on the clip.