Holding A Pen "upside Down"

[Spaceboy]

I recently purchased a Lamy Safari with w M nib and am finding it's too broad for me. In an attempt to have the line come out finer (because I'm too cheap to spend money on a new nib) I started holding the pen "upside down" and have found that it's been working! The line comes out quite a bit finer though it feels more scratchy on the paper. It's also slightly less comfortable, but not problematic, because of the shape of the Safari. Anyway,does anyone else do this? Also, is this bad for the nib or pen?

[Dickkooty2]

It is hard for me to understand why anyone would buy a pen for its performance "upside-down", let alone be satisfied with this tops-turvey approach as a fix for a nib they don't like.

 

Fountain pens are designed to be held and perforrn "right-side up".

 

I can never understand the reasoning the "upside-down" performance is mentioned on occasion in FPN reviews.

 

Being "too cheap" to buy a new nib is not a good reason for writing upside down,Spaceboy. And the Safari is too much a classic not to have it perform as designed.

[FPscribe]

Surely one of the advantages of a Lamy is that their spare nibs are so cheap. Yes, "reverse writing" is something people do - though mostly on occasion when the loop of a letter has been missed out.

[Ernst Bitterman]

Having a thinner inverted line was something Parker advertised as a virtue in the Vacumatics, and which Sheaffer occasionally mentioned in their Triumph-point pens. I don't know any modern pen-maker that finishes the tipping to make it a pleasant experience, but I've occasionally done it to make a marginal notation since about 1977. It's not bad for the pen as long as you're light of hand, and it's not a culpable practice. When I'm reshaping a tip for someone, I'll usually try to make it functional both ways up (it's actually kind of fun making a stub that writes a standard XF line the other way up).

 

The Safari isn't a great candidate, as you mention, because of its grip-directing contours, and it's pretty easy to swap tips, so I'd say you might as well get a finer point for your pen when funds allow.

[rwilsonedn]

Yes, other people do this, and in fact there were some vintage pens that advertised the ability to write a medium line with one side of the nib and an EF line with the other. The only problem with the practice is that, depending on just how the ball of hard metal is shaped on the end of your nib, you might wear out the top surface of the nib eventually. And yes, as you observed, it will be scratchy: the top of the nib doesn't get smoothed at the factory. If you every get interested in messing about with nibs, you can smooth the top of the nib yourself easily.

Given that Safari nib units are not expensive to replace, I would ignore the risk that you might wear it out in a few years, and write as you please. Mainly, enjoy your pen!

ron

[Spaceboy]

I’m glad that I’m not the only crazy one out there

I know that they don’t individually cost that much but if end up getting a F and find it’s still not thin enough and have to get an EF that would cost more than the Safari itself, especially after the shipping. All that said, I’m adding a F nib to my next order.

[ethernautrix]

I sometimes use the reverse side of a nib, but not as the primary "sweet spot" of the nib.

 

Then again, there are some pens that I write primarily on the tip of the left tine. Works for me.

 

Mostly, I prefer to write with the pen at the conventional orientation (albeit at a non-typically high angle). Whatever works.

[rwilsonedn]

I’m glad that I’m not the only crazy one out there

I know that they don’t individually cost that much but if end up getting a F and find it’s still not thin enough and have to get an EF that would cost more than the Safari itself, especially after the shipping. All that said, I’m adding a F nib to my next order.

 

Don't be surprised if you have to exchange the nib unit several time to get an F that is actually F and an EF that writes acceptably. European nibs tend to run wide anyway, and Lamy is rather notorious for lack of consistency in their nibs.

ron

[Sasha Royale]

I don't expect that you will wear out a nib, writing on paper. I expect "up-side-down" writing would be "scratchier", and ink flow poorer. Boooo-hoooo ! Alternative ? Buy the right nib. The " N " in FPN does not stand for "NAZI". Use your fountain pen as you wish.

 

Write with joy.

[sidthecat]

I have a little Carter that only writes upside-down—not a bad line, but one is conscious that the pen is wrong. The loupe revealed a short tine, so I'll have to have it fixed.

[zuph]

I definitely don't understand doing this as the primary mode of using a pen, but I will write upside down if I need to make a really fine line or write something much smaller than usual (usually when editing things with insufficient margins).

[FOUR X FOUR]

If you can write upside down, then you're not spending enough time at the gym

[wimg]

As a nib enhancer (aka nibmeister), I often adjust, smooth, and/or regrind nibs to write properly in normal writing mode AND in reverse writing mode.

As far as I am aware, many nib enhancers do so, on request. In reverse mode writing is very useful when, f.e., scribbling in margins when you don't have a finer nibbed pen available, or for reviewing documents and such.

 

Generally speaking, nibs are not smoothed on the reverse side, and neither is ink flow adjusted correctly. The latter, especially with modern nibs, is the most difficult part, in order to keep ink flow correct on both sides. As the reverse side due to the way the tipping is positioned and soldered/welded on, it is by definition narrower or finer, and therefore requires a heavier ink flow for good results, it can be extremely and frustratingly difficult to get a good ink flow at both sides, without overdoing one of the sides .

 

Anyway, nibs not being smoothed and not having correct ink flow by definition on the reverse side, and in some cases even with cut off tipping, makes them rather scratchy writers when used in reverse, if they do write at all that way.

 

Warm regards, Wim

 

 

[Water Ouzel]

Fountain pens are designed to be held and perforrn "right-side up".

 

I can never understand the reasoning the "upside-down" performance is mentioned on occasion in FPN reviews.

Some fountain pen nibs are designed to be used shiny side up or down. The Binder Italifine is one example. I've got .9mm and .6mm examples of his nib, the .6mm on an Edison Collier, the .9mm on a Pelikan M205.

 

Both of them write quite acceptably inverted, and as an EF nib in both cases. It was designed to do so, inspired by some vintage nibs that wrote similarly.

 

Some of my other pens, both vintage and modern, write adequately inverted, most don't do it well, or not at all.

[hbquikcomjamesl]

Only on the rare occasion of multipart forms with really tough NCR (registered mail forms are notorious).

 

Then again, Pelikan steel nibs can take a lot of abuse.

[Ernst Bitterman]

Wim, I can't think of a better job-title than "Nib Enhancer" and shall adopt it forthwith. Knap werk, jonge!

[wimg]

Thank you, Ernst .

 

I met Oxonian (John Sorowka) once, a couple of years ago, and we obviously had a long discussion on the merits of fine-tuning and regrinding nibs and such . He called nib craftsmanship Calligraphic Enhancement, and I told him that wasn't generic enough, and therefore I had started using Nib Enhancement, which he liked as well - and yes, neither of us like the term nibmeister .

 

Warm regards, Wim

[owend]

In my (limited) experience, Lamy's nibs are a size wider than marked - I have an EF when I usually find a F or Japanese M ideal. I use a Lamy with a steel EF for crosswords, and I frequently use it "upside down" to get a fine, faint, line for filling in clues when I'm not sure; I can overwrite when I've finally worked the answer out, and the overwrite hides the guess.

 

So there is a use for upside down writing. I have also used several other brands like that for fine lines, as mentioned a couple of times above for restricted margins, and for adding notes to closely typed pages etc.