Esterbrook J Sac Trays

[mmg122]

A couple questions for our Esterbrook experts...Is anybody selling sac tray replacements for the Esterbrook J fountain pens?

 

Secondly, am I correct in assuming that if no sac tray replacement is available, a #18 sac rather than a #16 is used for sac restoration to compensate for increased barrel width?

 

I've been restoring an occasional Estie here and there over several years and never realized that a sac tray existed until I pulled a piece of translucent plastic out of a J recently. Apparently my reading comprehension sucks...since, in the past, I've read both Paul Hoban and Frank Dubiel books.

 

Thanks for any info you can provide.

 

Mary

[jdllizard]

I've put larger sacs in Estys with no trays before, but I'm no expert. Though I do know not ALL Esty "J's" had those trays, or at least not all Transitionals or early J's and such which are nearly identical to how they work internally in comparison to a trayed J. So I saw no harm in it, as the tray was only introduced so they could get by with only needing to source one size sac at the factory for ease of assembly ordering parts and such anyway.

 

Have yet to have any sort of issue with doing so.

 

Best of luck.

[Hobiwan]

JD's right (sez me) about the absolute need (or lack of it) for the tray. As for the size, I don't know about the #18, but whatever fits smoothly under the J-bar without either bunching up or rattling around should do just fine.

 

Before the Pen Sac Company (and its documented specs for various pens) was revitalized by Bob Tefft and Peter Amis, you'd buy whatever sacs were available, and just use one that fit nicely in the pen. I never heard of any numbering system for sacs until I met Fred Krinke (proprietor of L.A.'s Fountain Pen Shop). But I digress .....

Edited August 21, 2015 by Hobiwan

[Tom Heath]

I have sac trays available

 

penfancier1915@hotmail.com

[cellmatrix]

I've got two estie J's which have trays removed and #18 sacs installed. They both write beautifully with no issues whatsoever and I like that they hold just a little more ink than the other Estie's that only have a #16 sac.

 

It's like having an amplifier that goes to 11 instead of ten

[FarmBoy]

If you look closely there are two (well three) different identical levers. One that was used in a tray pen and one that was used in a no tray pen (and a third that could be used in either.) They all look the same with one small but important difference.

 

The pivot hole is in a different location when you compare the tray and no tray pens. (The third lever has two pivot holes in it.)

 

The different hole locations allow for extra travel of the lever to allow the j bar to depress fullly to the barrel instead of stopping at the tray.

 

So if you have ever seen an Esterbrook lever with two holes and wondered why and which hole the ring goes in you now know.

[FarmBoy]

I have sac trays available

 

penfancier1915@hotmail.com

How many. Make me feel like I'm not the only idiot out there that saves them....

[mmg122]

Thanks JD, Paul, Tom, cell matrix and Todd for your feedback. In my previous restorations I must have only run into Js without sac trays or pens which were previously restored. Thanks also, Todd, for the info on levers. I need to start paying closer attention to the small details. One of the reasons (of many) that I collect these great pens is that I can get them working and looking good again.

 

And, Tom, thanks for the links.

[pen lady]

Obviously if I'm restoring a "J" type to resell, I'd keep things as original as possible, but how essential are the sac trays anyhow? I don't notice anything similar in other lever-fill pens.

[mmg122]

PenLady...my understanding is that they were only used in a limited number of Js...pens from 1944-1947 (Hoban "The Fountain Pens of Esterbrook", 1992). The purpose was "to stabilize the sac and, at the same time, insure fuller compression of the sac by the J bar when filling."

 

I guess technically if you want as correct a restoration as possible, it would make sense to install it, if you can find a replacement or rescue the original. According to the Esterbrook Restoration experts I've talked to, it's not necessary and is a PIA.

[pen lady]

Thanks for the clarification Mary. I've just been working on about a dozen "J" types, getting them ready for the Toronto Pen Show in November. I'd bought part of a huge pen collection consisting mainly of Esties and P45s with a few other goodies thrown in. I was lucky with the Esterbrooks, all the sac trays were there and while two J bars were broken, I was able to pull replacements from pens that were already damaged beyond hope.

[mmg122]

Sounds like a great haul you got there. Parker 45s are another favorite of mine. As Tom indicated above, he has sac trays available for sale if you need any. Good luck with the Toronto Pen Show.

[pen lady]

Thanks Mary. You should come up and see the show. Quick plug here....... it's at the Toronto Reference Library on Sunday Nov. 1st. For details check out www.scriptustoronton.com. Sorry moderators!!!!

[mmg122]

PenLady...thanks for the invite! Toronto is one of my favorite cities to visit. Unable to make it...but...if you have any Estie Bandless Pens or Icicles for sale, give me a shout.

 

Mary

[pen lady]

OK Mary, I'll keep you in mind. Pity you can't get up to Toronto though, last year's Show was a blast!

[jspen765]

Pen Lady:

 

Woodbin ( J-bars and they are among the cheapest in spite of shipping from him in Canada to me in the US. For you in Canada it might be cheaper. Not an exact fit but close.

 

Then you don't have to have a sacrificial pen...I had one without a cap, used the lever and J-bar. Of course I then found a cap...it is sitting in my bin waiting for the next dead Estie. So far in vain.

 

Lots of other good stuff at Woodbin.

 

Have fun!

 

Jon the Eclectic Penner.

[pen lady]

Thanks Jon, yes I've bought J bars from Woodbin, but my sacrificial Esties were in such poor shape, they weren't good for much else!

[mmg122]

Jspen...thanks for posting about Woodbin...I've not heard of this place before. Pen repair nirvana! I think I'll be spending some money here soon. Prices are awesome.

[OcalaFlGuy]

IMO, the diameter of the sac has most to do with Which section is in the pen. Most of them take a 16.

 

There were Tranny's with both 16 and 18 size nippled sections. I keep a known 18 sized one in the box to compare. Few if any of the Tranny's had trays and even the ones with the 16 sacs still work fine.

 

If you have a larger 18 sized Tranny section, it is almost sure to be hard rubber, No Hot Water!

 

Getting a tray in and or out can drive you stark raving, foaming at the mouth insane.

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

Edited September 2, 2015 by OcalaFlGuy

[mmg122]

LOL. Thanks for your feedback, Bruce. Brian Anderson told me he doesn't bother replacing the tray for the same reason. Who needs the aggravation.