Noodler's Switch To Plastic Bottles

[akustyk]

The bottle is an integral part of the ink as a product sold to consumers. As a consequence the bottle can add a lot of value to the product. For example, we love Noodler's labels. They're original and have a significant cool factor and are collectable. Nobody does labels better, but the bottle itself is not easy to use when it's full to the brim and when it's less than 1/3 full.

 

There's a reason why Akkerman inks are so desirable. Yes, they're very good inks, but the bottle adds a tremendous amount of value to the product. Every time I open a bottle of Akkerman ink, I smile.

 

I'd love for Noodler's to develop a more usable bottle, even if I had to pay more per ml of ink.

[tfwall]

There's a reason why Akkerman inks are so desirable. Yes, they're very good inks, but the bottle adds a tremendous amount of value to the product. Every time I open a bottle of Akkerman ink, I smile.

 

These bottles and others with internal reservoirs are looked at from time to time too. To become realized, the bottles need to come down in price so the overall price of 3 ounces of ink doesn't rise and the bottles need to made in the USA.

[SeeksAdvice]

Well, you are right about the packaging aspect.

 

There's also the tactile experience. Sorry, but plastic "feels" cheap. And, given that for me, the plastic components of a bottle of ink (the lid) are the first things to fail, I don't think I'd want an entire bottle made of plastic.

 

There is also the stability issue. Not only do Iroshizuku bottles "look" nice, they are heavy and stay put. Can't remember the last time I had a Iroshizuku bottle fall over in a desk and leak. Don't get me wrong, they have plenty of other issues such as sticking caps that break. However, I have had glass bottles of Noodler's tip over and leak in drawers.

 

Sailor's short and squat glass bottles, while harder to get the last bit of ink out of, also stay put.

 

I cannot imagine trying to man-handle a bottle the same shape/size of the current Noodler's bottles but made of plastic. At least they don't look like they fan out from tiny little pedestals like Visconti...

[UDog]

I'm going to start a glass bottle business just for Noodler's ink, so you can decant to quality bottles.

[wastelanded]

A piece of sky just fell into my coffee cup.

[SeeksAdvice]

I appreciate Tardiff's position on things, but I've come to the conclusion that restricting oneself to "Made in the USA" can severely limit options. Love it or hate it but, factories move overseas, product priorities change, SHTF happens (sometimes spectacularly to plants), labor issues happen, etc. If you don't have any other options or sources of supply, you can very quickly develop a problem.

One example in the glass world would be Fenton Glass formerly on the Ohio/West Virginia border. When it finally shut down, not only did it pretty much hose the town, but if it produced something that other entities really depended on, they kind of got hosed to. "Fortunately" Fenton pretty much only produced ornamental glass.

And, sometimes, the US supplier isn't the "best" option either in terms of quality or price, or both. Don't get me wrong, as an American, I like America. However, I recognize that sometimes you can get a better product elsewhere. For example, I'd rather buy a Sako Model 85 rifle than a Ruger "American Rifle," despite the fact that the Sako is ~3-5 times more expensive and isn't American made, simply because it's a much better product.

 

Personally, I would hold going to a foreign supplier of bottles against Tardiff less than going with the cheap plastic "USA made" stuff. Part of it is also the remembering of what at least one American plastics manufacturer did to the Northeast Ohio area when I went to Akron Law School.

[rafapa]

The all USA made reasoning also apply to dyes? And to all parts of Noodlers fountain pens?

Just curious, whats the cost of the glass bottle?

[pkoko]

 

It has been looked at, but it isn't easy. First, it requires re-tooling the bottling process and buying new equipment. This cost would have to be amortized over future production runs, costing you more money for the same amount of ink. Added cost without added value is a non-starter. Second, it locks future production into buying specialized containers available from limited vendors, putting NI at the mercy of these makers. So, again, a non-starter.

 

Can you clarify? How is ink currently poured from big mixing / storage tanks? I am an engineer who worked for major pharmacutical company, I am very familiar with vial filling mechanisms. Are current inks being bottled one at a time using big pipets?

 

I am trying to help.

 

Switching to plastic pouches that are thermally (permanentaly) sealed should lower production cost considerably. Then Nathan would have to design a mechanism (think of using IV fluid pouches or pouches with special septum) to transfer the ink safely to a specialty bottle.

 

At the very least, Nathan should provide his customers with an adapter that helps pouring new ink to the our existing empty glass bottles.

[tfwall]

The all USA made reasoning also apply to dyes? And to all parts of Noodlers fountain pens?

 

The pen and the ink itself are where the value is and some specific critical components have no functional substitute. For those components only, are foreign components used. Even vintage American pens had to import ebonite from SE Asia. It is still that way today.

 

The ink bottle is simply a convenient receptacle to get the ink home in. It is totally divorced from the writing experience and there are many acceptable alternatives made in the USA. Keeping a specific bottle isn't important. Giving customers the same ink at the same price is the important issue.

Edited August 21, 2015 by Chemyst

[tfwall]

 

Can you clarify? How is ink currently poured from big mixing / storage tanks? I am an engineer who worked for major pharmacutical company, I am very familiar with vial filling mechanisms. Are current inks being bottled one at a time using big pipets?

 

I am trying to help.

 

Noodler's Ink is not a "major company". There are no "big mixing/storage tanks". Ink is made in small batches by hand and dispensed through latex valves into bottles manually to ensure the customer gets the full promised weight of ink.

[tfwall]

I appreciate Tardiff's position on things

 

Just one "f", please.

[tfwall]

I'm going to start a glass bottle business just for Noodler's ink, so you can decant to quality bottles.

 

More simply, consider searching out vintage inkwells and bottles in Chicago. Coordinate your local pen group ordering a 16 oz bottle of your favorite color and everyone goes home with a full personal bottle of ink. Less waste, both in packaging and shipping.

[NewPenMan]

 

Noodler's Ink is not a "major company". There are no "big mixing/storage tanks". Ink is made in small batches by hand and dispensed through latex valves into bottles manually to ensure the customer gets the full promised weight of ink.

This makes me like noodlers all the more. I could get into the idea of sourcing Akkerman ink bottles and transferring noodlers ink to them.

[tfwall]

Part of me is applauding Nathan for trying to keep the bottom line down for customers. But part of me is going "Ick -- more plastic?" Not so environmentally friendly -- and I'd have to see in the long run what # plastic the bottles will be made from (my town only recycles #1-#5 plastics -- which is an improvement over when they used to just recycle #1 and #2 containers.

 

Based on the emails and responses to the previous FPN topic, it seemed like sustainability and Fair Trade were something a vanishingly small minority of users are interested in. Everyone else is either suspicious of the motives or just wants their pen and inks for the lowest price possible, externalities be damned.

 

The customers have spoken and they see no value in sustainability. The priority is keeping price per unit weight static!

[pkoko]

 

Noodler's Ink is not a "major company". There are no "big mixing/storage tanks". Ink is made in small batches by hand and dispensed through latex valves into bottles manually to ensure the customer gets the full promised weight of ink.

 

Thanks for the explanation... The bottle doesn't make the ink. Anyone seen Diamine 30 mL or 100mL bottles? They are horrific, difficult to use, and plastic as well. I think we are all over reacting here. I only wish that there is a safer (clean) way to transport ink from the plastic bottle to our old empty bottles?

[tfwall]

I only wish that there is a safer (clean) way to transport ink from the plastic bottle to our old empty bottles?

 

Buy yourself a small kitchen funnel or a transfer pipette at the local drugstore. Even a turkey baster can be used if you are steady of hand.

[rafapa]

From memory, companies which use plastic bottles/pouches are:

Visconti

Wancher (similar to the old Montblanc)

Diamine

Pelikan (the big ones)

Artisan Pastellier

Surely there are more, please add to the list.

Up to now I find no big complaints about them (the use of plastic I mean).

Why Nathan Tardif almos always seems to opens can of worms?

I havent't tried Noodlers inks because they are difficult to get in Spain but I sympathize with his way to do things.

[AndyYNWA]

Since it's fairly low cost brand, I don't care if it's glass or plastic. But an opaque bottle makes it look even cheaper, cheaper in a bad way.

A see-through plastic would be much more esthetically appealing and would probaly not cause this much controversy.

 

Also, to me it's quite important to be able to see the ink level.

 

However, I don't think Noodler's would loose particulary many customers if they raised the price slightly. If they just are transparent in the communication (just like they are now), it's usually no problem.

Goulet informed the customer about the Lamy nibs a couple of years ago, I don't think it affected their business in a bad way.

Edited August 21, 2015 by AndyYNWA

[tfwall]

Since it's fairly low cost brand, I don't care if is glass or plastic. But an opaque bottle makes it look even cheaper, cheaper in a bad way.

A see-through plastic would be much more esthetically appealing.

 

Also, to me it's quite important to be able to see the ink level.

 

This is a temporary measure. Glass will be back!

[fountainpagan]

From memory, companies which use plastic bottles/pouches are:

 

Artisan Pastellier

 

 

You are right, concerning pouch's use by Artisan Pastelier, Rafapa.

I add some more specifications to the subject, if you will

 

Artisan Pastelier has 2 kinds of packaging for the Califolio inks, specially made for fountain pens :

 

- triangular glass bottles (you can buy them empty from them, too) - 40ml

 

- pouchs - 50ml

 

Their Encre Classic, harmeless for fountain pen, but made more specifically for fine arts

 

- round glass bottles - 30ml

 

They use plastic bottles for volumes starting at 250ml