What Is Good Gsm (G/m2) For Paper For Fountain And Gel Pens Usage?

[TechnicGeek]

Another question I have is what is good enough GSM (G/M2) paper weight and caliper (thickness) to look for in personal diary or family keepsakes? Brian Goulet on his YouTube channel says 80 - 90 GSM is good but I just checked out HP Premium Choice Laserjet Paper which everyone touts as great paper for fountain pen and in their guide HP say their 32lb paper is 120 GSM which is 40 GSM more and it's for double sided printing too.

 

I am kinda trying to get a feel of common GSM used in diaries, notebooks designed for fountaine pen usage. Haven't noticed caliper being mentioned by the way in specifications but I am also interested to know about sizing which is coating and even if low-quality paper has coating for fountain pens, this can be a game changer I heard. In my case actually I will not be using fountain pen for now and will be using rollerball pen with water-based ink (same as one in fountain pen I guess) and gel pen. I wonder what GSM would you guys recommend for both pen types. My goal is to not have bleed-through and feathering but maybe that's not all since I will be sketching and writing text in diary? Absorbency is also important actually but coating would take care of that if paper is fountain pen friendly?

 

Thanks

[rafapa]

Actually the GSM is not a good measure of fountain pen friendliness. Tomoe River paper is suspected to be 52 gsm and is quite good (albeit it shows a lot of showthrough). Fabriano Ecoqua Bioprima is 85gsm

and is far superior to Navigator Expression 100gsm.

Something ink resistant with 80-90gsm is a good option because higher ones do not warrant a better experience and they add innecesary weight.

[brownargus]

Normal office copier paper is 80 gsm. Better quality papers are 90/100 gsm. However, in my experience, a higher weight of paper doesn't necessarily equate to being fountain pen friendly. I have some heavyweight paper that is a bit like blotting paper. So it is essential to get paper that is known or designed to be FP friendly. In the UK, papers by Conqueror, Rhodia and Clairefontaine are good with fountain pen ink. I also have some less well-known Croxley Script that takes ink well but it is rather creamy in colour. I haven't yet found a reliable cheap paper that takes FP ink without bleed through and/or feathering. I'm not sure what brands will be available in your home country. Roller balls and gel pens appear to be less demanding in terms of paper quality.

[thatotherguy1]

As others have said, don't base your search on paper weight. Base it on paper quality. Paper can be incredibly thin and light and still take ink well (but it'll show through due to the thinness)- like Tomoe River. It can also be incredibly heavy and not take ink well at all- like blotting paper.

 

That said, Clairfontaine makes some of the finest writing paper in the world. Their paper can be found in 90 grams for their self-branded line and in Quo Vadis products, and 80 grams in Rhodia (though the Webnotebook is 90). Leuchtturm1917 paper is rather well regarded as well- the normal size notebooks (small and medium) are 80gsm and the Master size (which, methinks, would be a good scrapbook) is 100gsm.

[TechnicGeek]

I want to build my own journal and use paper available locally so mentioned brands are out of question. I just wanted to know parameters I need to look out for and ask locals to get paper that would work well with rollerballs and gels. I will try fountain pens some day but rolelrballs and gels are what I want to start with.

 

Roller balls and gel pens appear to be less demanding in terms of paper quality.

 

Rollerball pen with liquid-based ink I was told is like fountain pen. Is it not? Liquid-based ink is what rollerballs and fountain pens use and it has less viscosity than gel-based ink. At least for gel pen there are less strict paper requirements to follow to find paper that fits and does not bleed-through, let alone feather. I must keep in mind GSM though to avoid showthrough which by thw way is less likely to occur with gel-based ink in my opinion.

 

I think coating and paper absorbency is what majorly affects bleed-through and feathering. Even if paper is highly absorbent for liquid-based ink, proper amount of coating would prevent bleed-through and feathering. I think liquid-based ink dries faster than gel-based ink.

 

Seems like a lot of things to keep in mind. I am sure local sellers would not know all this if I ask them. Just to look good all they would say look on what package says or say they stock only highest quality paper. Heck I actually don't know any local shop that specializes in paper...

[rafapa]

I want to build my own journal and use paper available locally so mentioned brands are out of question.

Why are out of question?

Surely you could get Clairefontaine Clairalfa in 250 or 500 A4 sheets packages (80, 90., 100gsm) or Oxford Optik A4 100 sheets (90gsm). Both of them could be used to make your own notebooks. If you like the adventure you could buy Fabriano Bioprima B1 sheets and have them cut to A3 or A4 size depending the final size of your notebook.

Regards,

Rafael

[TechnicGeek]

Why are out of question?

 

Importing Rafael. I do not have convenience of living in developed 1st world country like United States and have to shell out funds for importing through international shopping and shipping providers.

[rafapa]

Importing Rafael. I do not have convenience of living in developed 1st world country like United States and have to shell out funds for importing through international shopping and shipping providers.

Then it's impossible for me to help. I know nothing about what's available in your country, sorry.

[Sasha Royale]

Sorry, "GSM" standard is alien to me. 20# paper is standard for office photocopy use in the USA.

I prefer to write on 24# or #32 paper. A surface finish of 92 brightness, or higher, is more compatible with liquid ink.

 

If Brian Goulet says "90-GSM" , I am confident that he has actually used it, and likes it. I would not hesitate to use 90-GSM in an appropriate finish.

 

I wonder what kind of response you might receive, if you ask members to send you identified samples of papers they use.

[dcwaites]

I would go around to various retail print shops and ask if you could try some sample sheets of various papers.

That way you will be able to work with paper types that are available in Israel. If you find a suitable paper, you might then be able to get the printer to bind it for you.

 

The weight or thickness or price is no guide to how well a particular paper type will work with ink. In Australia, Fuji-Xerox had a range of papers, ranging from $5/ream to $25/ream and from 80gsm through 90 to 120. The best of them was the $6, 85gsm paper. All the cheaper and more expensive, and thinner and thicker papers bled and feathered more than that one. Unfortunately it is no longer made.

 

If you can find Double-A paper in Israel, go for it. It is an inexpensive 80 GSM paper that is one of the best I have ever found, as good as or better than papers costing $25/ream.

 

You just have to try it with a medium wet pen and ink. That will bring up feathering and bleed through on a paper that allows it.

 

I don't know if you have the Aldi stores in Israel, but they sell a brand of notebook called Little Finch, in hard cover, cloth bound books in A5 and A4 size. These are also excellent. And very inexpensive.

[TechnicGeek]

Are GSM and lbs for normal paper same for kraft paper? If kraft paper that goes through kraft process is sturdier and dense than normal paper then can 80GSM of kraft paper be equivalent to say 100GSM of normal paper and have higher rim weight?

 

Maybe there is a chart comparing GSM specifications of normal paper and kraft paper?

[dcwaites]

As others have said, GSM is not a useful way of guaging FP ink friendliness. I tried a number of papers from Fuji-Xerox with weights from 85 gsm through 90 to 100 and 120 gsm. In this case it was one of two papers at 85 gsm that came out best. The others all bled and/or feathered to different degrees. The paper that was best was also the cheapest paper.

 

There are no rules.

 

The only way to know what works on what is available to you is to try it.

[TechnicGeek]

The only way to know what works on what is available to you is to try it.

 

You are right.

[Abner C. Kemp]

Generally speaking, what you want to look for is a paper with some kind of ink resistant coating. The coating is what reduces bleeding and feathering by keeping the ink from over absorbing into the paper fibers. It is quite possible to have a very heavy gsm paper that bleeds and feathers heavily because it is super absorbent whereas super light papers like Tomoe River can resist almost all bleeding and feathering simply because the paper itself is ink resistant. I've found that, for the most part, papers in the 80-90 gm range with a coated finish hold up quite well. For instance, Laser Jet paper which has a slick ink resistant finish in the 85 gm. range holds up quite well to fountain pen use. If all else fails, run your finger along the paper in question. If it feels smooth and velvety and of a reasonable weight (70+gsm), there is a decent chance it will work well with your fountain pen (at least your fine and medium nibs). If the paper feels rough or similar to tissue paper, don't buy it. Of course, there are always exceptions to the rule.

 

As far as gel pens go, I've found they work well on a much higher percentage of paper compared to fountain pens. I suppose this also depends on the gel pen as well. If you are simply looking to use a rollerball/gel type ink then most papers should work relatively well. Something a bit heavier gsm wise might be helpful to reduce ghosting though.

Edited November 5, 2015 by Abner C. Kemp

[WirsPlm]

Be warned about coatings though, too much can cause problems with the ink or make it take forever to dry and let it smear easily or the coating can start gumming up your nib (papers that are too rough can leave fibers stuck in your nib too). You don't want a paper that's too coated, you want something that has a good balance between thickness, coating and absorbency. Probably the best way to figure out what works is to feel a bunch of papers and then test them with your pens and favorite ink, I went to an office supply store and felt a bunch of their middle-priced notebooks, then bought the 3 that felt best, not too smooth but not rough and scratchy. All of them worked OK, with some working better than others, the one with the most coating is also the one that brings out sheen or shimmer the best and the others

are better to use as notebooks because they dry faster.

 

Rollerballs aren't as sensitive as fountain pens to paper texture, but the inks are basically the same and you can even get rollerballs that use fountain pen ink from Pilot and J Herbin, gel pens are just like ballpoint pens and they work on practically any paper.

Edited November 8, 2015 by WirsPlm

[whych]

Like the guys have said, the gsm (density) of the paper has no bearing on the quality or how FP friendly a paper is.

Even paper from the same manufacturer can vary greatly in how FP friendly it is and some of their more expensive papers can be the worst performers.

The only way to be certain of how well the paper will do is for you to actually write on a sheet of the paper you intend to use and see how well it performs.

Remember, some inks are better than others on cheap papers and one ink that does well on the paper does not mean the paper will do well with another ink brand or type of ink say.

 

For cheaper printer papers, the paper quality will vary according to where it is made and the country it is sold in. You will also find that paper from the same manufacturer will vary by batch, so the batch of paper you have now may not be the same as a batch of the same paper in a year's time.

 

As far as branded notebooks and writing papers go, these will not vary from country to country and you can go by what the reviews/recommendations given on FPN. (eg 'Rhodia is generally FP friendly')

 

Some paper coatings will also react with FP ink and give it a different colour.

 

FOR PAPER WEIGHT/STANDARDS

(look at http://www.papersizes.org for a complete/detailed explanation)

 

The European standard for measuring paper in gsm (grams per square metre) is a measure of the density of the paper.

This means that if I make up 1 square metre of the paper and measure its weight, I will have the density of the paper in grams per square metre.

 

Therefore, if I cut an A4 sheet in half and make 2 x A5 sheets, the resulting sheets of A5 will still have the same density as the original A4 sheet.

Density in GSM is therefore indirectly a measure of the thickness of the paper - if I make up a batch of pulp and pour one batch of 0.5mm and another of 1mm, a square metre the second batch will have double the gsm of the 0.5mm batch.

 

The US measure of paper weight has no direct relationship to the density of the paper - it is a measure of the weight of a predefined size of paper which is different for each paper stock size.

This means that a sheet of 28lb Bond Letter size paper would not be the same as a sheet of 28lb Cover Letter size paper as the uncut sizes for Bond and Cover are different.

 

For ISO/metric papers, if I have paper of say 160gsm, it will probably be double the thickness of 80gsm paper.

The paper thickness however will not give you any idea of the paper quality or how well it will perform with FP.

Edited November 8, 2015 by whych

[Rosymomma]

Thanks for the write up. I love, and use the HP 32# premium papers (120gsm). As a teacher, this is what I run all materials or games that need to stand up to repeated use by Middle Schoolers. It rarely even needs to be laminated, saving me much money (if I were using these materials with elementary aged kiddos I would still laminate). As a doodler, sometime artist, and owner of approximately a dozen different fountain pens, this is my paper of choice for both letter writing and artwork.

 

I definitely prefer the HP to Rhodia and the dry time is better than for the Clairefontaine. Even when using my Spencerian flexible nib (antique Waterman) I do not have bleed through.

 

I also use HP's 24# (90gsm) paper in my printers, both at home and school (have to run to printer with my personal stash every print job). This allows me to use my fountaine pens at work with only minimal bleed through--as opposed to the cheap 20# paper that the school can afford to purchase. I generally go through approximately 5 packages of the 24 and one package of the 32 each year. Expensive, yes, but using a fountain pen is so much easier on my arthritic hands than ballpoints or even rollerballs and purchased by myself and not my school.

 

If making an heirloom peice, I would go with the 32# as there is still some bleed through on the 24# with wet pens.

[tamiya]

I find some papers also change their FP-qualities after going under a hot fuser roller... try running "blank" thru a copier or laser printer then testing it alongside an unprinted sheet.

 

Acquired easily 20-30 different copier papers since mucking around with colour printing. FPs seem best on "colour laser" premium paper; otoh anything coated for inkjet usually don't write well.

[josephleblanc]

The Gsm is not friendly for Fountain pen. Tomoe River paper is good for fountain pen. Know more details from the best paper service provider. As others have said, don't base your search on paper weight.

Thanks.