Black Ink For Genealogy Books (Not An Iron Gall)...?

[PaperQueen]

I'm transcribing my family history into four Graphic Image albums to be handed down through the generations (similar to family bibles, for those familiar with the practice). Before jumping in, it's important to determine the best ink for this purpose. Needs to be long-lasting and resistant to show through or feathering.

 

The book pages are acid free, with a very smooth finish.

 

Ideally, I'd like to steer clear of iron galls since:

• Writing will occur in spurts, with periods of inactivity now and then
• The specific pen has yet to be identified---could be a gold nibbed Waterman using a converter, could be a Pelikan with piston and gold rhodium-plated nib

 

Non-FP option would be a Montblanc Fineliner, black ink---only snag is that I can't find info about whether or not the ink is fade-resistant and archival.

 

Additionally, I kind of like the idea of having more ink colors to work with, on a couple of special pages. For that, my guess is J. Herbin, but I don't know what the lifespan would be...? Lengthy exposure to light isn't likely; beyond that, I'm clueless about fading concerns.

 

Thoughts? Suggestions? Wisdom to share?

[Joane]

MB Permanent Black

[dcwaites]

The only ink I would consider using is a FP friendly carbon ink such as Sailor Kiwaguro Carbon Black, Platinum Pigmented Black or Pelikan Fount India. On good paper these inks will last hundreds of years without fading and won't damage pen or paper.

[haruka337]

+1 Sailor Nano Kiwa-guro.

[Kataphract]

De Atramentis Document Ink (also their Archival Ink). Waterproof (no asterisks), and I think I looked at all the colors and they were listed as 8 on the BWS (blue wool scale). 7 or 8 of the BWS will last a minimum of 100 years displayed in museum conditions (a closed book helps, of course - 6 is semi-acceptable by artists. Basically, 8 is as good as it gets.

 

I believe all the ones mentioned above are also worth considering (beyond I didn't particularly care for Pelikan Fount India, and I have been a dedicated Pelikan Drawing Ink A user for dip pens for decades).

[inkstainedruth]

De Atramentis Archive Black is okay (reviews seemed to indicate that it was better behaved than the Document Black). I've been a little happier overall with the performance of Noodler's Heart of Darkness, which is pretty black and pretty waterproof (I actually like it better than Noodler's Black; HoD isn't as "black" as Noodler's Manhattan Black, which is supposed to be an "eternal" ink, but doesn't have the bleedthrough issues either).

Haven't tried most of the others suggested so far (okay, I did try the Sailor Nano Black in a Preppy rollerball with very poor results, and I have a bottle of the Pelikan Fount India but haven't gotten around to -- or, maybe, been a little chicken to -- actually try it).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[carlos.q]

MB Permanent Black

 

+1

MB Permanent Black has a ISO 14145-2 certification for archival quality permanent ink.

[Kataphract]

No problems with Document Black. Noodler's? Haven't found a published lightfast rating for any of their inks linked to any known scale (ASTM, BWS, heck, even a self-rated star system). I'd love to see one, but it's something fountain pen ink makers rarely do. I'd also argue their rather sloppy usage of "waterproof", but for documents they are usually "water resistant enough".

[inkstainedruth]

No problems with Document Black. Noodler's? Haven't found a published lightfast rating for any of their inks linked to any known scale (ASTM, BWS, heck, even a self-rated star system). I'd love to see one, but it's something fountain pen ink makers rarely do. I'd also argue their rather sloppy usage of "waterproof", but for documents they are usually "water resistant enough".

When I test inks for myself, I always do a minimal water-resistance test (although not to the extent of some people) because I'm sometimes a klutz. So if I say "I found X ink to be relatively water resistant/waterproof", I mean it.

As for lightfastness, you should check the extensive "endurance tests" testing that Amber Lea Davis has done in on various inks.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[dcwaites]

Dye based inks (MB Permanent Black, Noodlers Black/HOD, etc) may last 100 years, but have not really been tested over that length of time.

 

Carbon based inks (listed above) are known to last at least 3000 years, depending on the substrate (bamboo and papyrus are known to last longest).

 

Carbon based inks are used by museums in their labels, which are required to last several hundred years.

[Joane]

Dye based inks (MB Permanent Black, Noodlers Black/HOD, etc) may last 100 years, but have not really been tested over that length of time.

 

Carbon based inks (listed above) are known to last at least 3000 years, depending on the substrate (bamboo and papyrus are known to last longest).

 

Carbon based inks are used by museums in their labels, which are required to last several hundred years.

Not to worry. At the rate technology is going, i doubt people will even know what writing is in 3,000 years!

[PaperQueen]

Wonderful suggestions and insight---thank you!

 

I'm leaning toward the Sailor Kiwa-Guro Carbon Black. Having never used a carbon-based ink before, one question: Is this going to stain or be difficult to clean? I ask because one of the pens (Pelikan) is an M805 Demonstrator.

 

EDIT:
Or I just pick up a new, dedicated-to-this-ink-only Lamy Safari and call it a day. Any reason the nano ink would cause issues with a converter or F steel nib...?

Edited August 10, 2015 by PaperQueen

[Kataphract]

When I test inks for myself, I always do a minimal water-resistance test (although not to the extent of some people) because I'm sometimes a klutz. So if I say "I found X ink to be relatively water resistant/waterproof", I mean it.

"Their" (Noodler's) usage, not "your" usage (I have too much respect for you!). At the same time, I wouldn't call Heart of Darkness 100% waterproof, and to me, anything not 100% is by definition not "proof", but merely some level of "resistant". However, for documents, like the basic black, I would call it waterproof (from Noodler's viewpoint) enough. The entries might bleed some small amount if they get wet, but they should survive and be fully legible.

 

As for lightfastness, you should check the extensive "endurance tests" testing that Amber Lea Davis has done in on various inks.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

Always good to have independent tests!

[haruka337]

Wonderful suggestions and insight---thank you!

 

I'm leaning toward the Sailor Kiwa-Guro Carbon Black. Having never used a carbon-based ink before, one question: Is this going to stain or be difficult to clean? I ask because one of the pens (Pelikan) is an M805 Demonstrator.

 

EDIT:

Or I just pick up a new, dedicated-to-this-ink-only Lamy Safari and call it a day. Any reason the nano ink would cause issues with a converter or F steel nib...?

I've never had issue with this ink in my LAMY Safari or Pilot Decimo. Never given me problems in any of the LAMY nib sizes either.

 

As with any ink, thoroughly clean it out after each fill has been used and you'll be fine.

[dcwaites]

"Their" (Noodler's) usage, not "your" usage (I have too much respect for you!). At the same time, I wouldn't call Heart of Darkness 100% waterproof, and to me, anything not 100% is by definition not "proof", but merely some level of "resistant". However, for documents, like the basic black, I would call it waterproof (from Noodler's viewpoint) enough. The entries might bleed some small amount if they get wet, but they should survive and be fully legible.

 

 

Always good to have independent tests!

 

What happens with Noodler's Bulletproof inks (Black, HOD, etc) is that some of the ink doesn't penetrate into the paper, but sits on top. This is because some of the ink has penetrated into the paper, and the ink has chemically bonded with the paper fibres, blocking further ink from penetrating into the paper. This happens more with hard, dense papers, than softer, more fibrous papers.

It is not a property of the ink, but of the paper. The ink that sits on top can get washed off because it hasn't bonded to anything. The ink that has penetrated into the paper is truly bonded to it and is really permanent.

 

However, my initial point was that these inks are still dye-based, and we do not know how long the dye will remain unchanged, even if it has chemically bonded with the paper fibres. The carbon-particulate ink will remain unchanged for centuries.

[PaperQueen]

Final decision: Sailor Kiwa-Guro Carbon Black...and...

 

...used this as an excuse to pick up a Charcoal Safari, dedicated to this ink only. Realized that for this project, a lighter weight pen might be better (long periods of writing). Besides, my Lamy Vista and AL-Star need a sibling (how's that for justification?).

 

Thanks to everyone for the shared wisdom. Yet again, FPN rocks.

[dcwaites]

Good choice. However, if after writing a lot with a Safari, you might want a slightly more comfortable pen, look at a Platinum 3776. You can get them on ebay starting at about the $80 from reputable Japanese dealers.

[PaperQueen]

Good choice. However, if after writing a lot with a Safari, you might want a slightly more comfortable pen, look at a Platinum 3776. You can get them on ebay starting at about the $80 from reputable Japanese dealers.

 

Oh Lordy...my will power when it comes to new pens is zilch. :::gulp:::

 

Since Platinum's Japanese, would a M nib be comparable to a Lamy or TWSBI F?

[haruka337]

Oh Lordy...my will power when it comes to new pens is zilch. :::gulp:::

 

Since Platinum's Japanese, would a M nib be comparable to a Lamy or TWSBI F?

 

Generally, a Japanese medium would be between a western fine and a western medium nib. Leaning more towards fine.

 

It'd be closer to a TWSBI F.

[PaperQueen]

Generally, a Japanese medium would be between a western fine and a western medium nib. Leaning more towards fine.

 

I'd be closer to a TWSBI F.

 

Good to know--thanks.

 

P.S. to haruka337: I laugh every time your posts pop up, between the photo and the location text. Might be the best avatar ever.

 

P.P.S. Ohmygosh...and a fellow female whiskey fan. Treated Spey region as if it was Napa Valley a few years ago (tastings, tastings everywhere).

Edited August 12, 2015 by PaperQueen