The Super Duper Co-Razy Parker Penman Sapphire - Blue - Comparisons Psp

[amberleadavis]

I received a sample of the (in)famous PPS via Northstar and Amber. Thank you very much!

 

With the first writing I can see why many folks are drawn to this ink as it's bright, a very clean middle blue, not heavy. In a comparison with my existing handwritten reviews and various notes, I'd say Sailor's Kingdom Note Garrulous lidthi "Lidith's Jay" is the closest in matching the color, though it's a deeper color with a more opaque character to the PPS ink. The Sailor Kobe #14 Maya lapis blue is also close.

 

I've never tried OS Nitrogen nor my bottle of Noodler's Liberty's Elysium, but from their color they look similar. But we'll see. And I'll have to give J. Herbin Eclat de Sapphir and a few others a try as well.

 

I don't have some of the other inks people have suggested such as Sailor BB First Love (Sapphire).

 

Thanks again for the chance to play with the inks!

 

I adore Lidth's Jay and Maya Lapis and they are my go to blues. They are not the same as PPS, but that's okay with me. You should see both of them in reviews above. Though, I suggest trying them again.

[white_lotus]

I'm actually looking at them in person in comparison with the PPS that was sent. The KN ink is interesting in that on Tomoe River it looks more violet, my guess is from the sheen. On the other two papers, it appears more blue. You'll get to see it in person when I send them back. I know I could never get pictures that would show the subtlety.

 

btw, OS Nitrogen has amazing sheen on Tomoe River.

 

ps. This is all with medium or fine nibs.

[OCArt]

A bit off topic but who makes the "MR" paper that Amberleadavis sent out to the PPS folks to CRV?

[amberleadavis]

A bit off topic but who makes the "MR" paper that Amberleadavis sent out to the PPS folks to CRV?

 

MiquelRuis

 

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/home-gift-large-spiral-black-miquel-ruis-journal/12619795

 

I use the journals and the notebooks. I got hooked on them back in law school when I also got hooked on gel pens. Years later and the gel pens still haven't ghosted through the paper - not so on many other papers.

[HalloweenHJB]

 

I use the journals and the notebooks. I got hooked on them back in law school when I also got hooked on gel pens. Years later and the gel pens still haven't ghosted through the paper - not so on many other papers.

 

NO ghosting is a good thing?! Wait, I thought...

[amberleadavis]

Lol...I think we found our next Inky TOD.

[amberleadavis]

This is from WhichWatch.

 

Parker Penman Sapphire - the Whichwatch Folio

 

 

First, I want to thank Northstar and Amber for their generosity and efforts in providing and distributing PPS samples to us and for making this possible.

 

If I am posting this in the wrong place, I hope someone will let me know where it should go, and I will repost.

 

******************************

I set out to compare PPS to 4 inks reported to be similar to PPS:

 

1. Inkmyn Sapphire 1:2 (1 part Noodlers Le Colour Royale (purple version) to 2 parts Noodlers Navajo Turquoise)

2. Private Reserve American Blue

3. Sailor Bung Box Sapphire

4. Noodlers Liberty's Elysium

 

I wrote samples with 3 different nibs, using each on 4 different papers:

 

Nibs

 

1. Nakaya BB ground to Architect Point

2. Platinum B

3. Lamy EF

 

Papers

 

1. Tomoe River White

2. Rhodia Dot Pad

3. Franklin Christoph pad

4. Staples 20 lb Copy Paper

 

This resulted in 12 pages of scans, each written with 1 nib on 1 paper using all of the inks on one page. Scans are presented at the end of my text.

 

scans 1 - 4 Nakaya BB ground to Architect Point

scans 5 - 8 Platinum B

scans 9 - 12 Lamy EF

 

 

In each case the full left side of the page is written with PPS, the right side with 4 different inks, each identified in the writing.

 

My scanner is not perfect, and may not even be good. It is a straight-out-of-the-box HP copier/scanner and I don't know anything about color correction, etc. My conclusions are based on viewing the actual written samples in various lighting situations around my house as well as outdoors in natural light.

 

I will send my written pages to Amber in the hope she will put them in the hands of someone who is more sure of his/her scanner than I am of mine.

 

So for better or worse, my conclusions:

 

1. How close a given ink matches PPS varied a great deal with the particular nib and paper I used (duh!). MY choice for which ink matched closest was not consistent from nib to nib and paper to paper.

 

2. In ALL cases, Liberty's Elysium appeared to not match that well. It always appeared brighter (like containing a hint of Bay State Blue) and often lighter. Since many others have reported this ink to be a very close match, I wonder if my result reflects lot to lot color variations which are often reported on Noodlers inks.

 

3. Given the inconsistent variations I saw from nib to nib and paper to paper even on the PPS, I feel there is no possibility of identifying one ink that in all cases truly represents "the closest replacement for PPS" without adding "when writing with xxx on yyy"

 

4. For my money, Inkmyn Sapphire 1:2 and Sailor Bung Box Sapphire were generally the closest match, often (but not always) appearing virtually identical. Private Reserve American Blue was OK, and Liberty's Elysium not so much.

 

5. Given the variations and the fact that this is ink, not blood for a transfusion, personally there is no way I would pay $100 +/- for a bottle of PPS when $12 for Inkmyn Sapphire or even $40 for Sailor Bung Box Sapphire (US prices) provides an ink tht is a perfectly acceptable substitute.

 

Needless to say, your mileage may vary. My scans follow. I believe FPN software reduces the size, but if you click on the scan it will enlarge.

 

Thanks once again to Northstar and Amber!

[northstar]

Thank you WhichWatch for such a great comparison.

[snarkyshiba]

Just read through this thread. So fascinating to see and read about all the subtle (and not so) differences between blue inks!

[mhguda]

Again, kudos to Whichwatch for a great comparison of some serious contenders to taking the mantle from PPS. This shows very clearly that what you get is influenced not only by the ink, but also by what pen (and that means, I suppose, nib and feed in combination, and maybe even filling system?) and what paper you use. And it provides a way for those of us who use these same papers to make a choice based on paper of what contender will work best for us. Thanks a million!

[amberleadavis]

If anyone wants to play, I can write out more sheets. Just PM me your address and name.

[jmccarty3]

Many thanks to WhichWatch for this detailed comparison. The general conclusion I drew from examining these samples was that PPS is darker than the other inks, with Inkmyn Sapphire 1:2 coming the closest. It would be interesting to vary the proportions of LCR to NT slightly, to see if the mixture can come any closer. What we cannot be sure of is the degree of increased saturation of surviving PPS due to evaporation.

 

Another curious point depends on my memory of the introduction of the Penman Inks. We were very excited about them (the world of FP ink being rather drab at the time), and it pains me to think that I could have bought them all by the case. I did not experience any of the clogging problems one hears about, but I remember being disappointed with the color of PPS. I suppose I was used to blues with less turquoise, and I was afraid that PPS would be considered less masculine or professional than the standard Waterman, Sheaffer, or Parker Quink blues, so like an idiot I never bought any more of it. Another thing I observed about the Penman inks was that they appeared to have something like glycerin in them, making them more shiny and substantial, and less watery, than the standard inks of the time. Does anyone else remember this, or have you seen it in the surviving examples?

[whichwatch]

It would be interesting to vary the proportions of LCR to NT slightly, to see if the mixture can come any closer.

 

 

 

 

I tried mixing Inkmyn at 1:1, 1:2, 1:3, and 1:4 and in my opinion found 1:2 to be closest. This was using the purple La Colour Royale, not the reported blue version.

 

In looking at the actual ink samples on paper rather than scans (which of course only I can see), I am really happy with the Inkmyn mix. It is almost drop dead identical on a number of pen/paper combinations, and on the ones where not identical it is certainly close. It has the benefit of being widely available at modest cost (at least in the US) although it may suffer from wide variability.

 

The other benefit of Inkmyn is that I bought two bottles of ink (the two components). If I mix one bottle of Inkmyn (which lasts me a very long time), I have plenty of each component left over to experiment with slight changes in formula, mix and share sample quantities, etc.

 

I suspect Sailor Bung Box Sapphire will be far more consistant, but it is not as readily available and costs 3 to 4 times the price of Inkmyn mix (again, US availability and prices).

[jmccarty3]

 

 

I tried mixing Inkmyn at 1:1, 1:2, 1:3, and 1:4 and in my opinion found 1:2 to be closest. This was using the purple La Colour Royale, not the reported blue version.

 

I was thinking of a smaller change, say 1.1:2 or 1.2:2, just enough to make the mix a tad darker. If I can ever find the time, I'll play with it

[OCArt]

I compared the following inks using four Lamy pens with 1.1 nibs. (one studio, one al-star, and two safari's)

1) Parker Penman Sapphire sample to

2) Diamine Blue Velvet

3) Private Reserve American Blue

4) Noodler's Liberty Elysian

 

This first test was done on Clairefontaine Triomphe paper

When there is a double set of letters the PPS is first and the test ink second

 

The second test was done on the lined paper Amberleadavis provided.

When you look at her "X's" the PPS strokes are down and to the R, and the test strokes are down and to the L.

 

This third test was on the Miguel Ruis paper Amber provided

When you look at her "X's" the PPS strokes are down and to the R, and the test strokes are down and to the L.

Conclusion:

These are high quality scans but no kind of file is exactly faithful to the original.

 

Based on thees scans on Clairefontaine paper American Blue is there closest match, on Amber's lined paper it is a tie between American Blue and Liberty Elysium. On the Miguel Rius paper liberty Elysium has the edge.

 

Looking at the actual test papers American Blue is the best match on all types of paper.

 

However, if you have any of these three inks you are very close.

Edited December 5, 2015 by OCArt

[OCArt]

Bonus Round:

I did a quick dunk test of the inks on Rhoda dot pad paper.

 

Here it is clear that Noodler's Liberty Elysium can survive a brief water dip better than the other inks

[dcwaites]

Thank you all!! This has been great fun.

 

 

Wait!! WAS?? You mean it's over?

Whichever way that goes, yes a huge thanks especially to Amber and David, for providing such massive inky resources and making the whole process enjoyable and fun.

let alone being responsible for exploding the number of 15ml ink samples now awaiting an empty pen...

 

Three pages and two months later and someone said it was over. You know you can't kill a thread on the FPN.

[northstar]

Thank you OCART for your great comparison.

[jmccarty3]

Hmmm. On my monitor, OCArt's scan show Diamine Blue Velvet to be the closest match, followed by PR American Blue, and Noodler's Liberty Elysium, which is lighter. Go figure.

[white_lotus]

I'm almost done with mine. I'm also trying to work up reviews of inks as well. I have three more inks to do tomorrow. My bottle of NLE that I got a couple-three years back does not match PPS at all. I don't expect these last three to really match, but thought it'll be useful for comparison. I don't have any PR or Diamine inks in the blue range for comparison.

 

Hopefully I'll get to post photos tomorrow night, and send the originals to Amber. I don't have a scanner anymore that can take decent scans (that one died).

 

My theory is that back in the day, Parker went to their dye manufacturer and had custom dyes made for the Penman series of inks. They were big enough back then, they could have done it. With custom ink, Waterman, Sheaffer, etc wouldn't have been easily able to replicate those colors if they became popular. So I don't think the dyes exist today that were used in the past, and that's one reason we have such difficulty matching PPS and the other Penman colors.