Grail Pens

[ac12]

So I guess my "grails" are " trophys."

I can't bring myself to identify a grail pen, as I can't afford one, so I don't burden myself thinking about an "unobtainium."

[JonSzanto]

I believe we each have our own definition of a grail pen. For the college student it may be the Lamy 2000 they have wanted since high school, a pen they had to save, budget and sacrifice for. For those with seemingly limitless discretionary income, it may be the MB Writer's Edition they just saw. I think just as one man's garbage is another's treasure, my grail pen is not necessarily your grail pen. If you have more than 1 grail, that is great. If you have one, also great. The diversity among us is part of what makes this a fantastic forum.

 

All you have defined is an expensive pen. If the only reason a person can't get a pen is because they don't have the money, they can eventually get the money; if someone has the money, they can get the pen, no problem. The Grail part comes in when no matter your resouces - plenty of money, lots of contacts, constant searching - you still have not been able to even find, much less land, your desired pen. When people co-opt the term just to mean "boy, that's going to cost me a lot of money, I won't be able to get it right away", the term completely loses it's rather unique characteristic.

[Betweenthelines]

 

All you have defined is an expensive pen. If the only reason a person can't get a pen is because they don't have the money, they can eventually get the money; if someone has the money, they can get the pen, no problem. The Grail part comes in when no matter your resouces - plenty of money, lots of contacts, constant searching - you still have not been able to even find, much less land, your desired pen. When people co-opt the term just to mean "boy, that's going to cost me a lot of money, I won't be able to get it right away", the term completely loses it's rather unique characteristic.

I don't agree at all. If someone has to save up for a year, or four years, to buy a Lamy 2000 that he/she has oggled and desired as their personal ultimate pen, then for him or her, that is his/her grail pen. Grail pen is purely subjective. For some, money isn't that easily obtained.

 

I honestly think that yours and others' looking down on this particular use of Grail pen is born of a place of privilege and a higher income bracket. For many, a high priced pen is financially out of reach, and thus becomes virtually unobtainable - AKA a grail pen.

[JonSzanto]

I don't agree at all. If someone has to save up for a year, or four years, to buy a Lamy 2000 that he/she has oggled and desired as their personal ultimate pen, then for him or her, that is his/her grail pen. Grail pen is purely subjective. For some, money isn't that easily obtained.

 

I honestly think that yours and others' looking down on this particular use of Grail pen is born of a place of privilege and a higher income bracket. For many, a high priced pen is financially out of reach, and thus becomes virtually unobtainable - AKA a grail pen.

 

Absolutely incorrect. I'm not a person of great means, and while I've gone past my initial days of Platinum Preppies, there are endless number of people who can spend me into the ground, buying pens. There is *nothing* about said person's desire for a pen that makes it a Grail, it is the object itself, something that exists in scarcity or at a realm of pursuit that few, if any people will get to it, that confers the title.

 

I live in the real world: I realize people have co-opted the term. I completely understand what someone means when they say they have landed a grail and I find it is a very common pen, one that could be purchased any day by any number of people. I get that. It doesn't, however, mean that the word was used well, because they have just reduced its meaning to pretty much nothing.

 

Just call it an expensive pen.

[jar]

 

Absolutely incorrect. I'm not a person of great means, and while I've gone past my initial days of Platinum Preppies, there are endless number of people who can spend me into the ground, buying pens. There is *nothing* about said person's desire for a pen that makes it a Grail, it is the object itself, something that exists in scarcity or at a realm of pursuit that few, if any people will get to it, that confers the title.

 

I live in the real world: I realize people have co-opted the term. I completely understand what someone means when they say they have landed a grail and I find it is a very common pen, one that could be purchased any day by any number of people. I get that. It doesn't, however, mean that the word was used well, because they have just reduced its meaning to pretty much nothing.

 

Just call it an expensive pen.

 

I think in the end it comes down to what makes a "grail item". Is it something intrinsic to the item itself or something intrinsic to the seeker.?

 

I mentioned a pen earlier that I am seeking. There were only three hundred of them made and so the likelihood of finding one is fairly low. In that case it is characteristics of the item itself that makes it a grail.

 

The case of a Lamy 2000 is quite different. There it is not a characteristic of the pen itself, there are many, many more than 300 Lamy 2000s made and if it is a matter of affordability there are hundreds if not thousands of similarly priced pens. In that instance it is the characteristics of the seeker that determines a "grail item" and not just the Lamy 2000 but any and all of the similarly priced items would also qualify as "out of the seekers price range". The Lamy 2000 in that case is not really a grail but rather only one element of the set of "items I cannot afford".

 

The seeker has redefined "grail" to mean "something I want but cannot afford" so grailness is not related to the item itself but to the seeker.

 

No matter how much money I have or how much I desire that Jim Gaston sandblasted copper Legacy 2 there were still only 300 of them made. No matter how much I change, I still have no control or influence over the existence of that item.

 

In the second case though if I live long and prosper, earn more money or look for used ones, I can always get a Lamy 2000. I only need to change the seeker to acquire the grail.

[82Greg]

I will be lucky if I complete any two items on my list.

 

My Grails (at the present moment):

 

Waterman 7 (complete set; of which I currently only have the Red)

 

Waterman Patrician (complete set; of which I currently only have the Nacre)

 

Soennecken 222 Extra or Superior (whichever is larger; of which I have nothing)

 

Waterman 56 and 58 (complete set of colors; of which I have a 56 and 58 in Black)

 

Nakaya Dorsal Fin in Suzu-Ishime (nothing)

 

Wahl-Eversharp Doric Oversize w/#10 Adjustible nib (in Black, but eventually one in each color) (nothing)

 

Conklin Nozac Oversize with Red and Gray Chevrons (nothing)

 

Omas Vintage Paragon in each color (I've got Bronze Arco, Green Arco and Royale Blue)

 

Pelikan M1000 Raden Starlight and Sunlight

 

Onoto Mammoth (vintage)

[JonSzanto]

 

I think in the end it comes down to what makes a "grail item". Is it something intrinsic to the item itself or something intrinsic to the seeker.?

 

I mentioned a pen earlier that I am seeking. There were only three hundred of them made and so the likelihood of finding one is fairly low. In that case it is characteristics of the item itself that makes it a grail.

 

The case of a Lamy 2000 is quite different. There it is not a characteristic of the pen itself, there are many, many more than 300 Lamy 2000s made and if it is a matter of affordability there are hundreds if not thousands of similarly priced pens. In that instance it is the characteristics of the seeker that determines a "grail item" and not just the Lamy 2000 but any and all of the similarly priced items would also qualify as "out of the seekers price range". The Lamy 2000 in that case is not really a grail but rather only one element of the set of "items I cannot afford".

 

The seeker has redefined "grail" to mean "something I want but cannot afford" so grailness is not related to the item itself but to the seeker.

 

No matter how much money I have or how much I desire that Jim Gaston sandblasted copper Legacy 2 there were still only 300 of them made. No matter how much I change, I still have no control or influence over the existence of that item.

 

In the second case though if I live long and prosper, earn more money or look for used ones, I can always get a Lamy 2000. I only need to change the seeker to acquire the grail.

 

Thank you, Jar. Most eloquently spelled out.

 

In other news, you could just give up and sell me the Gaston Cobalt Blue. I'd be happy with one of the four! I don't know if I mentioned, but about 3 weeks ago I got a bug about that pen again and while researching online, stumbled back upon his site. While it is pretty much abandoned, it didn't appear so, and it almost looked like he still had some for sale. Unfortunately, though, my email to him was replied fairly promptly, and while it was great to chat with him, alas he has no pens. Dang.

[delano]

It's all about the Quest

 

 

I wholeheartedly agree. I love the thrill of the hunt.

[Betweenthelines]

 

Absolutely incorrect. I'm not a person of great means, and while I've gone past my initial days of Platinum Preppies, there are endless number of people who can spend me into the ground, buying pens. There is *nothing* about said person's desire for a pen that makes it a Grail, it is the object itself, something that exists in scarcity or at a realm of pursuit that few, if any people will get to it, that confers the title.

 

I live in the real world: I realize people have co-opted the term. I completely understand what someone means when they say they have landed a grail and I find it is a very common pen, one that could be purchased any day by any number of people. I get that. It doesn't, however, mean that the word was used well, because they have just reduced its meaning to pretty much nothing.

 

Just call it an expensive pen.

It seems you consider there to be a 'correct' or 'proper' objective definition of the term grail pen, that being jar's first definition he laid out. However clearly the term is subjective, as it is being widely used subjectively today. Yours is just another subjective definition of the term, not any more or less correct. As with all elements of this hobby, value is in the eye of the buyer and user, which is a beautiful thing. A grail to one person can be trivial to another. I much prefer the 'personal meaning' definition of the term, and not just limiting it to pens that there are only 20 of in existence. And thankfully, it seems most share in my preference for this definition of the term.

 

Nonetheless I respect your right to define it as you wish and do not consider mine any more or less correct. To each their own!

[jar]

 

 

"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less."
"The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."
"The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master—that's all."

[Betweenthelines]

 

"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to meanneither more nor less."

"The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."

"The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be masterthat's all."

Perfection.

[Cryptos]

For me the term 'grail' is an abstract one. To be able to say, ahead of discovery, that my grail pen is such and such a model robs the term of meaning. My grail pen will be the one that when I settle it into my hand and lay the nib on paper I will know, just know, that it is the one. What model, make or cost is irrelevant. That is simply how I see it and that's how it will always be for me.

 

It is interesting that an awful lot of people's 'named' grail pens are simply expensive pens, limited editions or both, and that they are sought out even when the seeker has no experience of the writing experience of their desired pen.

 

Each to their own I suppose. I do agree with one or two others here that the term 'grail' is overused and has lost the, shall we say, spiritual element to it.

 

My opinion, please don't shoot me for holding a contrary one.

[Uncial]

I think it's in the Chretien de Troyes version of Arthur's Big Adventures that one knight of the Round sets off on an epic journey to find the grail. As he leaves his castle he shuns all help from his own people and ignores the beggar sitting at the gate with a little cup in his hand collecting grains of barley. Off he trots on his grand horse to adventure through unknown lands and find a golden chalice. He spends many years searching but is forced to return to his castle empty handed. As he is crossing the bridge he sees the beggar sitting by the river washing the grains of barley in his little cup, and there in the dancing light on the water he sees the cup give a flash of gold.

 

Maybe in time, when all the lustre has faded, I shall return to my lowly Parker and that battered old Sheaffer and know they were the grails I sought, but had.

[Cryptos]

That's the ticket!

 

You know, I had a bottle of Higgins Eternal ink arrive the day before yesterday. It was my first such bottle and I pulled out an Esterbrook #442 Jackson Stub, fitted it to my new Steve Engen holder and had myself a quite sublime writing experience. I was surprised and delighted in equal measure, almost to the point of saying this is it, what do I need a fountain pen for? Anyway, cost for this: $4.50 (for the ink) + $1 (for the nib) + $17 (for the holder) = $22.50. And the holder is a thing of beauty in my eyes, made of Koa and Autograph Wood. Is it my grail? Perhaps not quite but it is mighty close!

 

Oh, and "Arthur's Big Adventures", I loved that, very amusing. Being English I have irrational emotions at the mere mention of Arthur and his life and times. And being from the Westcountry I feel a deep connection to the history and myths. So I'll have to come around with my trusty sword and give you a good spanking for your impudence!