Is Rhodia Missing The Boat?

[tony1000]

I love Rhodia products, but I really wish they would make them in popular US sizes rather than just European (metric) sizes.

Two examples are composition books and 3.5“ x 5.5” side-stitched notebooks (like the Moleskine Cahier and Field Notes Brand notebooks).

Neither of these sizes is available from Rhodia (although its parent company, Clairefontaine, offers some 3.5“ x 5.5” notebooks that aren’t as easy to find). And Rhodia does have a smallish 7.5 x 12 cm 48 page notebook that would be just perfect if it was a bit larger.

I have nice leather covers that fit these two sizes and I would love to fill them with Rhodia notebooks!

Clairefontaine/Rhodia has hinted that they may be open to producing composition-sized notebooks if there is enough interest.

How do you feel? Would you be interested in these size notebooks? Let Clairefontaine/Rhodia know via their U. S. distributor, Exaclair:

http://www.exaclair.com/contact.php

Take a quick survey on this subject:

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/TG6SM7C

Article here: http://thefrugalfountainpen.blogspot.com/2015/05/is-rhodia-missing-boat.html

[inkypete]

About time the USA came in line with the rest of the world. Go metric!!!!!!

Edited May 3, 2015 by inkypete

[WaskiSquirrel]

About time the USA came in line with the rest of the world. Go metric!!!!!!

 

I've wondered about this too.

[inkypete]

 

I've wondered about this too.

When the change was made here it was a nightmare for us older folk who grew up with imperial measurements. But I was surprised how quickly we all adapted to the change. I was a paper merchant and because so much paper came from Europe I was dealing in metrics a little already. To this day when someone describes something as being 30cm or 300mm long my mind still says that's about the length of a sheet of A4 paper and makes that mental comparison. Why has the USA been so loath to make the change?

[Jimmy Joe]

Welcome to living in one of the last three pre-metric countries on the planet. The other two are Myanmar and Liberia.

As to why the USA hasn't changed? I think it is some weird combination of anti-internationalism, American exceptionalism, and a cruel desire to see students in math, science, and cooking classes struggle with units conversion for their entire academic careers.

[ink-syringe]

B5

 

They don't even make all the proper iso sized books and pads. A4 too big, #16 pad is too small.

 

FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS HOLY MAKE A B5 PAD ALREADY.

 

</ahhhhh>

 

 

 

 

[Charles Rice]

The reason the USA won't go metric? - it's French!!!

Edited May 3, 2015 by Charles Rice

[El Gordo]

It is not French, something has indeed been first coined in 1670 or something in France, and put in place during the French Revolution times after 1790, but that is still about 90 years before dedication of the Statue of Liberty ... . Around 50 B.C. we had some severe problems with the Romans in our area, we now use Roman numerals without regret. It is time to let go sometime...

 

"In the United States, by Act of Congress in 1866, it became “lawful throughout the United States of America to employ the weights and measures of the metric system in all contracts, dealings or court proceedings.” (Note that there has never been a law explicitly making it legal to use the inch-pound system nor defining those units' values. In fact, it wasn't until the Mendenhall Order, in 1893, that the units of the inch-pound system were finally officially defined — in terms of metric measurements.)" and "In 1875, an international agreement, known as the Convention of the Metre, set up well defined metric standards for length and mass and established permanent mechanisms to recommend and adopt further refinements in the metric system. This agreement, commonly called the Treaty of the Meter in the United States, was signed by 17 countries, including the United States. As a result of the Treaty, metric standards were constructed and distributed to each nation that ratified the Convention. Since 1893, the internationally adopted metric standards have served as the fundamental measurement standards of the United States. Our non-metric units have been defined in terms of these metric standards ever since." (U.S. Metric Association http://www.metric.org)

 

OK, for the implementation then, weird things can happen if presidents prefer to be advised by journalists on such matters I guess. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Metric_Board). Well if 1 billion Chinese can change from driving left to right without major problems and introduce the SI system also, if in my own country, even used only quarto when at school, if the British abandoned the British Imperial Units why can't the US comply with it's own acts?

 

So It should be clear that it is international, just as ISO, the International Organization of Standardization (BTW about ISO and USA : "Since it was founded in 1918, the American National Standards Institute (ANSI) has coordinated the development of voluntary consensus standards in the United States and has represented the needs and views of U.S. stakeholders in standardization forums around the globe. ANSI is the U.S. member body to ISO and, via its U.S. National Committee, the International Electrotechnical Commission (IEC). ANSI is also a member of the International Accreditation Forum (IAF).)"

 

So I conclude that A4 can rightfully be claimed to be fully American by consensus, I rest my case.

 

BTW ISO 216 specifies international (ISO) paper sizes. Nearly all ISO paper sizeshave an aspect ratio 1/sqrt(2) , not that "metric" in my eyes ...

 

 

 

 

Edited May 3, 2015 by El Gordo

[LeonW]

Interesting, thanks for explaining that.

[delano]

 

I've wondered about this too.

 

I'm only 12.700 convinced we should go metric.

Edited May 3, 2015 by delano

[pepsiplease69]

I wasn't too much into international paper sizes until i fell head over heels for good quality paper to supplement my fp and ink addiction.

 

Most good paper I buy comes from France or Japan but I'm always on the hunt for locally attainable paper of good quality such as miquelruis or black n' red or fabriano. Almost everywhere I'm confronted with international paper size and I feel it has grown on me now and I've warmed up to the clinical sounding names like A4, B5, A5 etc.

 

The only one place where I still see US paper sizes is for the staples arc system and even at that, the paper quality is not that exciting.

 

The one thing I like most about the int'l paper sizes is the 1 : sqrt(2) aspect ratio. It means that when a paper is folded in half the aspect ratio will be preserved and you'll step down to the next paper size going from A4 to A5 to A6, or B5 to B6 etc. I think that's just brilliant.

 

The other semi useful tidbit is the link between paper weight and int'l paper sizes which is quite interesting to me. The paper weight generally denoted in gsm units is generally used to gauge the thickness and FP friendliness of a particular brand.

 

The link between that and A0 paper which has an area that spans 1 square meter means that an A0 sheet of 90gsm paper will weigh precisely 90 grams. And going from A0 down to A4 you'd have to halve the paper four times and therefore the weight will also be halved that many times giving us 5.625 grams. This is brilliant but not very useful in this day and age. Back when post was meticulously weighed and priced accordingly, this piece of information would be vital. The weight of your letter plus the weight of the envelope.

 

Anyways I think for these reasons I'm a big fan of the international paper sizes and the US paper sizes seem meaningless to me.

Edited May 3, 2015 by pepsiplease69

[Charles Rice]

I don't like Rhodia anyway. Too smooth. Still, what the heck, why be like every one else?

[El Gordo]

[...]

 

The only one place where I still see US paper sizes is for the staples arc system and even at that, the paper quality is not that exciting.

 

[...]

 

If I am correct the Staples Arc system is some sort of a "variant" of the Atoma system (no problem as the patents lapsed as far as I know). It is not limited to US sizes, you can refer to the original (since 1948) Atoma for EU styles or check the company that is working with them in the US (Myndology). Not related to any of these (in fact I am not into half-bound and refill notebooks). Nice thing however is that all tools (e.g. perforator) are available (bit expensive to my taste ...) to combine your own notebook fitting the covers (or why not even make your own covers if you like) if you don't like the factory ones. You could combine Amalfi paper into a fluorescent flashy PE cover if you are into it... Or otherwise stated: you can ignore both ISO and US sizes.

Edited May 4, 2015 by El Gordo

[Newjelan]

So the real question is: "Is the U.S. missing the boat?"

[ink-syringe]

Base 10 and the metric system is overrated as ultimately all measures are arbitrary. Further, idiosyncratic measures allow us to test our math chops in other bases and have their own charm (who wants to buy firecrackers in metric?)...

 

but I do wish the US would switch over to ISO paper sizes.

Edited May 4, 2015 by ink-syringe

[pepsiplease69]

All measures are arbitrary, I agree with you on that.

 

But why make things unneccarily difficult for 100% of the populace just because of the "charm" factor.

 

God gave us 10 fingers on our hands and so Base-10 makes sense for us because we have 10 digits. Base-2 makes sense for computers because it has 2 digits (on and off)

 

It behooves us to find a simplest standard to adopt, to make life easier for everyone.

 

Testing our chops on math is good if we're all math majors. (I have a bachelor's degree in Actuarial Mathematics)

 

Not everyone is "wired" to crunch numbers, and we should be wise to recognize that.

 

There are some places where not going metric actually is better. The Celsius versus Fahrenheit scale is one example.

 

I find the Fahrenheit scale much more meaningful for a reasonable range of temperature measurement. It almost has twice as much grannularity as the centigrade scale, and I feel it's more easier to gauge temperature ranges, for example, the reasonable temperature levels go from maybe 20F all the way up to 110F and each decade (if you will) has a distinct "feel" in terms of comfort level. Anything below 60's is biting cold, sometimes debilitatingly so, if we get below 30's. Getting to 70's and 80's is acutally quite pleasant. 90's is where is starts to begin to become uncomfortable, and triple digits, watch out, you could fry an egg on the hood of your car.

 

The Celsius scale probably goes from 0 to 45 maybe and is more coarse. Unless you want to talk in decimal fractions which could get messy.

 

So for me the Fahrenheit scale is a lot more practical and usable.

 

 

Anyways, the imperial versus metric system debate is a never-ending battle. I think the most practical and usable thing should be sensibly selected and used and we should not be so rigid in our ideals.

 

That's just my 2 cents of opinion.

[pepsiplease69]

 

If I am correct the Staples Arc system is some sort of a "variant" of the Atoma system (no problem as the patents lapsed as far as I know). It is not limited to US sizes, you can refer to the original (since 1948) Atoma for EU styles or check the company that is working with them in the US (Myndology). Not related to any of these (in fact I am not into half-bound and refill notebooks). Nice thing however is that all tools (e.g. perforator) are available (bit expensive to my taste ...) to combine your own notebook fitting the covers (or why not even make your own covers if you like) if you don't like the factory ones. You could combine Amalfi paper into a fluorescent flashy PE cover if you are into it... Or otherwise stated: you can ignore both ISO and US sizes.

 

 

Thanks for that info. I actually do use the Arc system quite effectively with the perforator and all. I cannibalized a staplebound A5 Clairefontaine and stole all of its paper, I made the mushrooms along the edges on one side and used it quite well.

 

Also I don't like to use only one side of the paper that comes on the rhodia pad, so I tear those out and perforate them and use them in an ARC notebook, that way I can use both sides.

 

I'm currently doing this for keeping track of all my inks and all of the pens that I have, which ink is loaded in what pen. If I have to scratch something out and put a new ink, I can always pull out the sheet and put a new one in its place with the correct information. It's working out quite well for me. I use an A6 pad and notebook (of a similar US size denomination) for this purpose.

 

Your Amalfi idea sounds delicious. I might have to try that sometime.

 

Levenger also has something compatible to ARC system and they call it "Circa". They also sell Rhodia paper, pre-perforated for the Circa disc system, all in Standard International sizes.

 

Just my beef is with the Staples covers that are in US sizes and won't match if I put A4 or A5 sheets inside.

Edited May 4, 2015 by pepsiplease69

[Conan the Grammarian]

When it was first proposed, adopting the metric system would have been a nightmare. Officials forms, notebooks, folders, copiers, xerographic machines, etc. would all have been scrapped and replaced.

 

Now, with most copiers coming with an A4 size selection built-in, xerographic machines a thing of the past, military veterans with experience working with metric-using allies, metric tools required to work on foreign-specced cars, and a wide selection of foreign paper products available, I think it may not be too much longer before we see the metric system more widely accepted (and used) here.

 

One generation will have to bite the bullet and drag the preceding ones with it. That may be easier once the Baby Boom is mostly gone from public policy making, the biggest stumbling block to a changeover will be out of the way (the baby boom was a large voting-age population with little childhood exposure to the metric system and a reluctance to change).

Edited May 4, 2015 by Conan the Grammarian

[FLZapped]

About time the USA came in line with the rest of the world. Go metric!!!!!!

Doubt that will happen any time soon. The dimensions of US paper are mostly built around the engineering/architecture paper requirements.

[AAAndrew]

Actually, as a member of the Baby boom, granted towards the end of the officially designated generation, we did get a big dose of metric when I was in school. Back in the 1970's there was a push to go metric, in the schools at least.

 

Probably when I was in 4th and 5th grade or so (c. 1973-74) we were told that we were going metric "soon" and started studying it pretty extensively. I even remember some highway signs starting to show metric as well as "imperial" measures. But then the late 70's recession hit and all of that extra expense went out the window with the oil crisis and inflation.

 

At least that's my memory.

 

I'm not sure what will trigger any movement towards metric here. I suspect it will creep in rather than be a big push.

 

And as for the Arc system, you can make your own covers to whatever size you want as long as you have the punch, which does fit A4.