Smythson Vs. Crane & Co. For Personalized Stationery

[Keyless Works]

I am looking to buy some nice quality stationery and I originally wanted Smythson but 50 sheets of writing paper and $50 envelopes costs over $1,000.

 

I can get a similar look from Crane & Co. engraved for about $400. Is there any reason to pick Smythson?

 

Some differences is that Crane & Co. only offers two colors of paper (okay three if you include both whites). Crane & Co. does hand bordered paper and correspondence stock but not envelopes. Also the Crane & Co. envelopes are not watermarked any more they have an unfortunate raised "Crane & Co." logo.

 

Is there another company I should be considering?

[tfwall]

I like Piccolo Press out of Scotland, myself. Dempsey & Carroll can also assist you.

 

Smythson offers their famous lightweight paper and Nile Blue line. If you are just after cream coloured stock with some engraving, then most printing houses can help you.

 

It is also worth noting that 50 sheets is a very small order. Much of the cost that you are seeing is likely the initial tooling and die set-up. If you order more initially, say 200 sheets and 100 envelopes, prices will likely converge. Even more so if you go for 500 sheets and 200 envelopes or some combination of note sheets and correspondence cards.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Chemyst

[Maurizio]

I do not find the Crane paper very fountain pen friendly. I would try your pens and inks on a sample before commiting to an expensive print job.

 

If you're working with a commercial printer, ask for samples of Cranes to test out. I suggest you also ask for samples and try:

 

Strathmore Writing

Strathmore Script

Strathmore Inxwell

 

Not affiliated, just like the paper.

[Keyless Works]

I like Piccolo Press out of Scotland, myself. Dempsey & Carroll can also assist you.

 

Smythson offers their famous lightweight paper and Nile Blue line. If you are just after cream coloured stock with some engraving, then most printing houses can help you.

 

It is also worth noting that 50 sheets is a very small order. Much of the cost that you are seeing is likely the initial tooling and die set-up. If you order more initially, say 200 sheets and 100 envelopes, prices will likely converge. Even more so if you go for 500 sheets and 200 envelopes or some combination of note sheets and correspondence cards.

I will take a look at these. I looked at the pricing and I get to keep the plate and ink so it is cheaper if I decided to do more in the future but I am not convinced I will want to keep the same stationary after 100 letters.

[brunico]

Is there any reason to pick Smythson?

 

No. It's not bad paper by any means, but it's priced the way it is because it's self-consciously a luxury goods business rather than a stationer. I remember the paper itself being not hugely more expensive than Crane: it's rocketed over the years, but I guess much of the cost here is a terrific markup for the print service.

 

If I had to get personalised stationery, I'd probably get something like Fabriano Florentia from a company that specialised in paper rather than in leather knick-knacks and take it to a local printer for embossing.

[Keyless Works]

Dempsey & Carroll seems to be similarly priced to Smythson :/ I will Piccolo Press tomorrow morning.

[Keyless Works]

 

No. It's not bad paper by any means, but it's priced the way it is because it's self-consciously a luxury goods business rather than a stationer. I remember the paper itself being not hugely more expensive than Crane: it's rocketed over the years, but I guess much of the cost here is a terrific markup for the print service.

 

If I had to get personalised stationery, I'd probably get something like Fabriano Florentia from a company that specialised in paper rather than in leather knick-knacks and take it to a local printer for embossing.

This is a good idea. I will try and find a local engraver.

[jmccarty3]

I bought beautiful Smythson engraved stationery from a local dealer years ago. Unfortunately, the dealer no longer carries Smythson, so I will have to see if the dealer or Smythson still has the engraving plates if I ever need more. The quality of the paper is outstanding.

[Keyless Works]

Their featherlight paper is amazing but I am not sure I want to spend the $$. It just needs to look good and perform well and if I can find that I don't think I will miss the Smythson watermark.

[jmccarty3]

My Smythson paper is heavier white stock. If you go through a local printer, insist on trying samples of the paper with your fountain pens.

[Keyless Works]

I did that with Crane & Co. but they only had card stock and an envelope to write on. So tomorrow I should have the proof and supposedly if I don't like the paper I wont have to pay $20 for the proof.

 

I am hoping though that the Crane paper works because I like the look, it's relatively affordable and has a short lead time. I will post pictures with a writing sample and see what you guys think.

[Joe in Seattle]

I've used Crane for my best correspondence for many years. I like the paper and love the 3 x 5 correspondence cards. I carry them daily in a pocket briefcase.

[Keyless Works]

I may still do the Crane but does anyone have good experiences with Pineider paper?

[Barkingpig]

I have a TON (probably 40 boxed sets of their paper,assorted sizes, note cards, stationary sets consisting of various papers & note cards,

gift tags, place cards & wrapping paper besides various notebooks & organisers!) I have used it for over 20 years & been quite happy with each item. I have NOT however used their "custom" engraving service.

I have only used Cranes & Mrs. John Strong (several years ago before it recently sold) for engraved writing paper. Mrs. Joy Lewis (who purchased the business after Mrs. Strong's death) helped me select a card & envelope that I still use & have been very happy with. She also helped me ( by telephone no less ) design & adapt a card to be sent to my Mother's friends announcing her death. This order involved sending the cards (after engraving was complete) to an artist in Florida to hand color detail on each card. I was very appreciative of her efforts to help me produce a beautiful card that would have "suited" & been pleasing to my Mother for it's use. I have not used them since the business has been sold so I cannot say that they are still able to provide the level of service for which they were formerly known.

It is a big decision as hopefully it will be something that provides satisfaction & joy long after purchase. Good luck. You seem to be "doing your homework" so I am sure your choice will be worth the effort expended.

[zenshrink]

Earlier, I was going to respond suggesting Pineider but it is not always easy to locate. I love Pineider stationary. Different paper lines have different qualities but they are all very fountain pen friendly. The watermark is a beautiful fleur de lys with Pineider in script. Also, the edging is hand-painted, and the envelopes lined in beautiful colored tissue. There is an embossed Pineider signature under the point of the envelope flap which you may not like as you mentioned embossing. Pineider in Florence is known for the hand engraving of their dies though it must be very expensive as the paper, itself is quite costly.

[Blade Runner]

Crane's is terrific for fountain pens, but like other 100% cotton papers, you have to make sure your nibs have no defects, because slight misalignments and imperfections will become noticeable. In fact I always carry Crane's when testing a new pen. I In contrast, slippery, glossy papers such as Clairefontaine more readily mask nib defects. I dislike slippery, glossy papers and prefer instead papers like Crane's that have a softer texture, absorb ink better and provide more feedback to the nib. I had two engraved plates made by Crane's for stationery and a calling card. Lovely work.

[Keyless Works]

Well this is starting to drive me bananas.

 

I went to the local engraver and they told me that the paper I provide has to be cut because the edges of the paper will get dirty or damaged on the press. Also I cannot use paper with a deckled edge for engraving...only letter press.

 

They also informed me that as a general rule they never reuse plates unless they will be reused in the near future as the copper oxidizes and the dye can go bad...I didn't seem like he was joking but if you just wipe off the plate after you use it, it shouldn't oxidize right? On the plus side the plates are only $35.

 

Anyways, the price for just doing a simple font with name and return address is $75 so to engrave 200 sheets of writing paper is about $275 not including the paper cost.

 

I think Crane & Co. is the best choice at this point. I have been unable to get a hold of Piccolo Press.

[Keyless Works]

Maybe I should just use my laser printer and call it day.

[jmccarty3]

That's interesting. My dad was in the printing business for 50 years. I got a fair amount of engraved stuff through him, and he always said the engraving plates could be reused.

 

Persevere, and do not use your laser printer. There is nothing like real engraving, and you can tell a lot about a person by his ability to recognize it.

[Keyless Works]

To clarify a bit, the local engraver uses copper plates were Crane supposedly uses copper coated steel plates.

 

I tried the proper Crane ecru white paper today and by comparison to my Medioevallis and Smythson Cream Wove papers and results were not to my liking.

 

It performs very similar to Southworth 100% Cotton 32lbs. The lines my pens put down look raged on it. I am not a paper expert so maybe this is a desirable quality but it's not one I like. Perhaps I should try some of their other papers before I completely cross Crane off the list.