Winsor & Newton Calligraphy Ink

[Ernst Bitterman]

I grew up under an architect's table, and got to see a lot of technical pens... in an ultrasonic bath for DAYS trying to clear up Koh-i-noor clogs. Those were stylographs, of course, so many fiddly bits were involved, but they were also meant to have that kind of ink down 'em.

 

This was some time ago, of course. Formulations change. But I really recommend using easily-replaced pens as test vehicles.

[TheBimbler]

I have used this ink in a Rotring Artpen and found that it clogged up the nib. It does say on the bottle "Clean equipment after use".

 

I would certainly not use it in a vintage or expensive fountain pen despite what it says on the bottle, after all Winson and Newton are an artist supply company and as far as I know do not make fountain pens!

 

I now only use it with dip pens mainly for sketching or other artwork.

[krz]

QUOTE (CD7 @ Apr 12 2007, 03:45 AM)

Hey, it's for ART!

Yes CD7, we do tend to try harder to make something work if it's for our art.

I went many years without a decent black to use in a fountain pen.

 

I do have some Doc Martin's and Golden's Trans. acrylic colors (for airbrush) both are nice, the Golden's have a stronger hue mostly. I only use these in my tech pens.

[caliken]

In my experience the whole calligraphy ink question is a pretty muddy one. While I completely agree with the "don't let it near you oldest and dearest" rule I think that, given the opportunity a little experimentation can be _very_ worthwhile.

 

Let me elaborate a bit: I'm learning to draw, (for personal reasons) I've chosen to work only with waterproof inks and I like fountain pens. Naturally I want to draw with fountain pens using waterproof inks. Hmmm, not that many of them around when you first look at it but ...

 

What about those great inks for technical pens? Things like the Kohinoor Ultradraw and Universal inks. I love those inks in my tech pens, sure wish I could use them in my fountain pens.

 

Well there's two things that might be of use to you. First thing is the Rotring Artpen, I'm using the "Sketch" version which comes in F and EF. The Rotring Artpens can be completely disassembled in about 10 seconds and they're cheap enough ( <$20) that you can buy two: use one and have one in the rinse, every few days swap them and you're good to go with a much wider variety of inks. You guessed it: I'm happily using the Ultradraw and Universal inks and loving it.

 

The thing about there being shellac in many calligraphy and tech pen inks is very true and potentially bothersome but -- and this would be thing two -- shellac will readily dissolve in alcohol. I've tested this by intentionally letting an Artpen inked with Kohinoor Universal (a shellac-based india ink) to sit on the desk uncapped for a week. Needless to say it was a mess and acted like it would never write again. Overnight in a wee jar of alcohol (ethyl alcohol is best, it's often sold in hardware stores as "shellac thinner") and the thing was ready to go again.

 

Based on these successes I've been running the Ultradraw and Universal inks in my Lamy Safaris too for several weeks now. I do notice that the semi-dried ink tends to gunk up the pen after a week or so but fortunately it's pretty easy to pop the nibs on the Safaris and give them a nice cleaning. Again, a little bath in the alcohol once a week or so seems to keep things running quite smoothly. And again, the pens are cheap enough that you can have one soaking while you're using the other.

 

Other experiments like this have yielded some successes (Winsor & Newton) and some failures (J. Herbin) but the moral of the story stands IMHO: get something like an Artpen (best) or Safari (also good), buy a little alcohol and give it a try. You might find yourself with a workable combination using a favourite ink and speaking from experience, that's a pretty sweet thing.

 

Having said all of that I'd never put these "trouble" inks in my Pelican m400 or anything that I couldn't either disassemble or throw away. That's what Noodler's (and a few others) was made for and that's going to be my next step in the fountain-pen-with-waterproof-ink adventure.

 

Edit: corrections

 

Thanks for this excellent, detailed post. I'll now try my Windsor & Newton inks in my Rotring Art Pens (cleaning frequently).

 

[inkysmudges]

Glad you found it useful caliken but I should mention something that was brought up in another thread: alcohol can damage or even dissolve the internals of some vintage pens. My understanding is that it's relatively safe on hard plastic pens like the ArtPens but one must be careful when and where you use it with other pens. (EDIT: I've since discovered that Kohinoor Rapido-Eze cleaner is much safer and more effective. See a couple posts down for details. For the most part I no longer use of alcohol on my pens.)

 

As far as the ArtPens go though alcohol can be a real boon if you're intent on running the "tougher" inks through them. I've been experimenting with all manner of inks, mostly acrylic and india-type drawing inks, and it seems that there are very few inks indeed that the ArtPens won't work well with if you have a relatively routine cleaning schedule.

 

I've been using a "4 days inked, 1 day soaked" rotating schedule and it seems to work well for the many inks I've tried thus far. Of course that means you need several ArtPens in your collection in order to avoid any annoying down-time but they're not expensive. In fact I think there are a couple "hot pink" Calligraphy ArtPens on sale in the Marketplace right now.

Edited May 3, 2007 by inkysmudges

[caliken]

Glad you found it useful caliken but I should mention something that was brought up in another thread: alcohol can damage or even dissolve the internals of some vintage pens. My understanding is that it's relatively safe on hard plastic pens like the ArtPens but one must be careful when and where you use it with other pens.

 

As far as the ArtPens go though alcohol can be a real boon if you're intent on running the "tougher" inks through them. I've been experimenting with all manner of inks, mostly acrylic and india-type drawing inks, and it seems that there are very few inks indeed that the ArtPens won't work well with if you have a relatively routine cleaning schedule.

 

I've been using a "4 days inked, 1 day soaked" rotating schedule and it seems to work well for the many inks I've tried thus far. Of course that means you need several ArtPens in your collection in order to avoid any annoying down-time but they're not expensive. In fact I think there are a couple "hot pink" Calligraphy ArtPens on sale in the Marketplace right now.

 

Thanks again - this is really useful information which could avoid expensive mistakes.

[inkysmudges]

A wee addendum here, regarding cleaning the tough inks off of and out of pens: based on the "eek!" responses I've seen around regarding the use of alcohol to clean pens I figured I try a little harder and see if there wasn't something equally effective but less (potentially) damaging to pens: there is. It's Kohinoor's Rapido-Eze.

 

This stuff works better than soapy water, water with ammonia, or alcohol on tough clean-up jobs. I had an old Parker 45 that's been kicking around in my old pen collection shoe box for close to 20 years. I think I may have even inherited it from my dear old dad when he upgraded or cleaned out his desk drawers or whatever.

 

Anyway I took out the old 45 and quickly remembered why I had pretty much forgotten the thing: MASSIVE caking of ink all around the nib and even in the filler. It looked like a snot-nosed kid that hadn't been getting enough kleenex time! So I tossed the nib into some Rapido-Eze, sucked a bunch up into the filler and let it sit for a bit.

 

After a while (yes, longer than the instructions recommended) I emptied and flushed everything and ... no go. But I could see it was working because there were yucky black flakes of ink floating around in the 'Eze. So I lathered everything back up and let it sit some more.

 

It took a couple tries, and a thorough disassembly and scrubbing, but now -- after who knows how many years -- that old 45 is writing again, smooth as you please. Needless to say I'm a BIG Rapido-Eze fan.

 

Oh yes, one other thing: alcohol would have trashed that 45. I could tell from a wee spot check I did that the alcohol would definitely eat into the 45s plasticy bits, not the nib assembly but certainly the nib housing. So AFAIC without the 'Eze that old 45 would still be in the bottom of the shoebox, no good to no one.

 

EDIT: It's "Rapido-Eze", not "Rapid-Eze".

Edited May 3, 2007 by inkysmudges

[hblanchard]

I live in a small town with limited access to pen-related products, so when I find something, I usually buy it. I ran across some bottles of Winsor & Newton Calligraphy Ink that says "For Fountain & Dip Pens". I've heard that calligraphy ink should not be used in fountain pens, but this ink is saying it's okay. I bought 2 bottles of this ink, but decided I should pose the question here before actually using it in some of my vintage pens. Should I, or shouldn't I?

 

Well, I'm not as experienced as most on this board, but I must contradict the dire warnings. I've been using the Winsor and Newton Calligraphy Ink which says 'for fountain and dip pens" in an inexpensive non-vintage pen to good effect. It even sat around for a week with no clog (contrast that with Levenger's Black, a for-fountain pen ink which seems to clog every pen it's put it in). No, I don't intend to put it in a vintage, expensive, or even favorite cheap pen. If the W&N suddenly turns bad, I'll let you know.

Edited May 3, 2007 by HBlanchard

[fountainpenjunkie]

Hey Kudzu,

 

Two things:

 

1. Rather than allow that ink to waste, I say buy an inexpensive dip pen. The flex effect is amazing. You will love writing with one.

2. If you won't do that, sell me those two bottles of ink. Defray your Binder expense.

[kudzu]

Yo, Fountainpenjunkie - I'll send you a PM on the Winsor & Newton inks.

[ClosetMonster]

I'm new here and just learning about fountain pens. I have a Cross that I love the weight and feel of for drawing but I have trouble getting the ink flowing as smoothly as I'd like. Thanks to this thread, it sounds like it's the ink, rather than the pen! I've been using "Higgins" Calligraphy waterproof black ink (which I bought at the art shop instead of with the pen.)

 

I'll give it a good cleaning and pick up some proper ink from where I purchased the pen. Thanks for the info!

[Peter Thomlinson]

The best black ink I have is home-made. We had the road up outside and they were re-taring it. So I went out and pinched a trowel full of their best black tar. Enough to last a few years!

 

I just thin it a bit with white spirit, and it makes wonderful black permanent ink, and it runs freely and never clogs my Pelikans.

[ppenloverr]

Hey Kudzu,

 

Two things:

 

1. Rather than allow that ink to waste, I say buy an inexpensive dip pen. The flex effect is amazing. You will love writing with one.

2. If you won't do that, sell me those two bottles of ink. Defray your Binder expense.

very cool thing to do but a bit concerned i will need to keep diping every 10 seconds, will get on my nerves. always loved calligraphy but never got into it even if i always though about it. do you know about any special nib for caligraphy but just for standard letters. i mean has to be very fine nib with flex.

[fountainpenjunkie]

Hey Kudzu,

 

Two things:

 

1. Rather than allow that ink to waste, I say buy an inexpensive dip pen. The flex effect is amazing. You will love writing with one.

2. If you won't do that, sell me those two bottles of ink. Defray your Binder expense.

very cool thing to do but a bit concerned i will need to keep diping every 10 seconds, will get on my nerves. always loved calligraphy but never got into it even if i always though about it. do you know about any special nib for caligraphy but just for standard letters. i mean has to be very fine nib with flex.

 

I have experimented with dip pens, but not extensively. The inexpensive one I bought from Pendemonium that came with a small bottle of ink and I believe the pen had a couple different sized nibs. The lines can be drawn very fine and as you add more pressure, the tines seperate and widen the line. It is amazing. Check out pendemonium.com or your local pen shop for a dip pen kit.

[kudzu]

I actually took fountainpenjunkie's advice of getting into dip pens, and now I love using them. Yes, I have to dip frequently, but that gives me time to compose my thoughts, slows down my normally fast & furious writing pace giving me a nicer result. I have to concentrate so much harder to form the letters correctly with a flexy dip pen so that for me it IS a much more deliberative process. A flexy dip pen, in my experience, is not for dashing off a note.(A non-flexy one would probably be more like writing with a regular pen.)

 

So I do like the Winsor & Newton calligraphy inks (very vivid and they dry shiny) with my dip pen. But would not use them in a fountain pen.

[scribbler77]

I wouldn't use the W & N inks in an FP, especially the metallic colored ones. I'm pretty sure they use ground pigments that will clog an FP in short order. As the Greasy Hooded One suggests, try a cheap FP you don't mind garbaging, and let us know!

 

The metallic W & N inks are not designated as safe for fountain pens. W & N make both inks for dip pens and also inks that they say are OK for fountain pens as well as dip pens.

 

I have both. I tend to use them for dip pens and glass pens only, but I would not hesitate to use the ones labled for fp use in cheap pens such as those sold in calligraphy sets. The colors are quite intense and are useful for titles and other types of calligraphic lettering.

[Moe]

I actually took fountainpenjunkie's advice of getting into dip pens, and now I love using them. Yes, I have to dip frequently, but that gives me time to compose my thoughts, slows down my normally fast & furious writing pace giving me a nicer result. I have to concentrate so much harder to form the letters correctly with a flexy dip pen so that for me it IS a much more deliberative process. A flexy dip pen, in my experience, is not for dashing off a note.(A non-flexy one would probably be more like writing with a regular pen.)

 

So I do like the Winsor & Newton calligraphy inks (very vivid and they dry shiny) with my dip pen. But would not use them in a fountain pen.

 

 

Well, you wouldn't *have* to dip so frequently if you had one of Ackerman's "Pump Pens". It's a great way to use flexy dip nibs and juicy acrylic ink without all the incessant dipping (or for those of us who are perfectionists, brush loading). I'm loving mine, and they qualify as completely disassemble-able pens, so I dont worry about it getting ruined with my ink/watercolor/gauche experiments.

 

InkySmudges, my apologies in advance if this perhaps leads you down a path of more choice-explosion trying to find the perfect nib/ink/paper combination.

 

One word of caution on the Pump Pens though, don't expect typical FP quality, this thing is very much an "Art Pen", it's not going to woo you with it's fit and finish (about like Rotring's art pen). But versatility, that it does have !

 

 

Cheers,

Moe

 

 

[GeneralSynopsis]

Late rather than never:

 

The W&N calligraphy inks claim (in the very small print) to be "non-waterproof". Which is curious as if I let it actually dry on paper it is waterproof enough to take watercolour (or inktense, or thinned acrylic) washes without any trouble. I have my doubts about its waterproofness over thick acrylic though, but then the dip pen and india ink is available for that.

 

I have used it in both dip pens and a Rotring Artpen without any trouble, though I do clean up the Artpen between fills. 

[mizgeorge]

Why is this persistent spammer still here? Do moderators no longer care about her repetitive links to clickbait sites and review aggregators for art stores?  I've reported several times, but it feels like nobody's there.