What Are Sacs Made Of? Specifics Please :)

[Intellidepth]

Hi, what ingredients are involved in sac manufacture please? My interest stems from wishing to determine whether there would be any accidental synergistic reactions that may occur if a specific additive were added to an ink used in it.

 

Any known ingredients/product knowledge would be most helpful please including things like powders (talc?) or any synthetic or natural products used in manufacture or installation (shellac?).

 

Yes, I understand the risks of contemplating such an experiment (potential dead pen). Experiments in less valuable pens are underway (search for "glitterati" in the ink forums) but haven't yet extended to sacced pens.

 

With grateful thanks.

[Ron Z]

You'll have to write to the Pen Sac Company or Woodbin, though I don't know if they'll share what the formula is for the latex that is used. End users, and that includes professional pen mechanics, have no control over what is used, or any idea what is used for that matter.

[graystranger]

Intellidepth,

 

The pen sac manufacturers may tell you what is used. But that may not be enough information to predict what potential reactions could occur between the sac and ink additives.

 

Some modern replacement sacs are made from silicone rubber. I would not think you could put anything in the ink that would affect a silicone sac.

 

Looks like you are talking about adding glitter to the ink. Glitter is commonly mica crystals colored with iron oxide or titanium oxide, all inert in water. The problem that I think would be the most prevalent would be the fine particles being attracted to the surface of the sac, or even becoming chemically or ionicly bonded with the sac material and coating the surface so it is not easily rinsed out. This would be a surface chemistry phenomenon. Also, I do not think any pen sacs would leach any chemicals into the water based inks at all, or they would not be work well with so many ink compositions.

 

If I were adding glitter material to inks, I would first rinse the additives very well in hot water and filter them through a paper filter (like a coffee filter). Then dry the glitter well. That should get rid of anything in the glitter that may dissolve in the ink. You might even use a bit of soap in the water, just rinse the soap out well before you filter it.

Edited February 25, 2015 by graystranger

[Ron Z]

I focused on the material used in sacs, and not on why you want to know. I think that if you want to use material like this in ink, you should stick with dip pens and nibs. Don't put it in a fountain pen.

 

We generally try to avoid getting solids in our ink in fountain pens. Inks are dyes for the large part, no pigments, no solids (or at least there shouldn't be). Pigments, or any solids are likely to clog the rather fine channels in the feed. I've had to clean out feeds of pens in which the wrong stuff was used, and it isn't pretty. That includes India ink (carbon), white "ink" and ink colored with gold or silver colored material, which isn't far from glitter.

[Intellidepth]

Thanks.

 

Only interested in the additive xanthan, not the glitter, in sac pens. Someone else here on FPN has already experimented with glitter [no xanthan] in a sac pen and wasn't keen on it.

 

Silicone will be fine. Xanthan has synergies with guar, locust bean gum, and konjac, none of which I'd add to ink but I'd wondered about latex manufacture. Xanthan doesn't have synergies with natural latex, so it's just anything else.

 

My intended use of xanthan is as an agent to slightly increase ink viscosity, at much lower levels than that required for luster suspension.

[FarmBoy]

I'd flip this question around and instead of asking what is in a latex rubber sac, why not tell us what is in the ink and let us choose to or chose not to put it in our sacs?

[Intellidepth]

I'd flip this question around and instead of asking what is in a latex rubber sac, why not tell us what is in the ink and let us choose to or chose not to put it in our sacs?

sure. Except I'm exploring addition of xanthan to existing commercial fp inks for personal post-purchase adjustment. I have a few inks that need viscosity changes for a pen or two that just happen to have sacs.

 

No secret inky chemistry experiments boiling away in my kitchen... My family might get served ink for dinner otherwise.

[Ron Z]

Oh boy! More pens to repair! (not)

 

Sorry, but that was my first reaction. It's not just the sac that is an issue here - it's the feed and nib and all that I think would be gummed up (pun intended) if xanthan is used in ink. Most inks do not need a thickening agent other than simple evaporation.

 

Do experiment, but please, do fess up if a pen has to be disassembled and cleaned because of what was added to the ink.

[rtrinkner]

I've heard that some vintage pens (e.g., Carters) write with a wetter line with today's thinner inks than they did back in the day with thicker inks made for these pens. Is that true?

[Intellidepth]

Oh boy! More pens to repair! (not) Sorry, but that was my first reaction. It's not just the sac that is an issue here - it's the feed and nib and all that I think would be gummed up (pun intended) if xanthan is used in ink. Most inks do not need a thickening agent other than simple evaporation. Do experiment, but please, do fess up if a pen has to be disassembled and cleaned because of what was added to the ink.

Will do. And if I have my phone and loupe handy at that time I will try to get 20x loupe shots .

 

I'll try the evaporation method with a couple of vials worth of my Iroshizuku inks as they aren't very compatible with my vintage Waterman.