Help Removing Section From A Vintage Waterman, Gold Filled

[Crewel]

Hello. I have recently acquired a vintage, gold filled Waterman from the ol' bay. Here is the closed listing. I am in the process of restoring/resaccing this pen, but I need some help and suggestions from you experienced restorers or experts.

 

(1) Any suggestions on how to remove the section from the barrel? The pen has been soaking in an ammonia and water bath for the last couple of days with the pen submerged in the bath just above the section. This has helped to remove more of the dried ink, but the section has not loosened yet. I've also briefly attempted to heat that section with a hair dryer, but I have not really done more due to fears of discoloring the section. Granted that fear may be misplaced.

 

(2) What is the typical sac size needed for this pen?

 

(3) The tip of the nib appears to curve down like a bird's beak a little more than I'm used to seeing in other nibs or Watermans. Is this typical for this model of pen? I've done a dip test, and I'm happy that it seems to be a flex nib. However, I'm wondering if I need to straighten the tines out a little. The pics from the listing may not be adequate so show this, but to my eyes, the curve may be more drastic than usual.

 

Any help in the above regard is much appreciated.

Edited February 24, 2015 by Crewel

[Xof72000]

Take your time : patience is your friend.

You did welle soaking and warming it but if the sac inside is broken and some ink has dried, it can be very tricky to open (some people even glue the section on the barrel ... ).

You can use special pliers to hold firmly the section and the barrel. Turn rather than pull, otherwise the barrel could crack.

 

Have a look here for more informations : http://www.richardspens.com/?page=ref/repair/sac_replacement.htm

[Crewel]

Thanks for the response Xof72000. I do have section pliers, but I have not thought to use it just yet. I know the sac has ossified because I can't lift the lever all the way perpendicular without resistance or fear of breaking the lever. In a similar vein, I wonder if I should submerge the pen all the way so some of the ammonia/water solution gets inside the barrel to help loosen the shellac or whatever sealant was in there. Due to the gold filled shell, I'm hesitant about damaging the metal of the body and the lever mechanism.

 

I know I should go about this with patience, but I just want to see what kind of time frames more experienced people have had with similar pens or issues. I plan to soak it some more for another 2 days, and if that does not work, then I may use the hair dryer method.

 

By the way, anyone have any guidance as to whether I should use hot tap water on the pen? I've used that method on an Eversharp Skyline Demi, and that helped get the section free. I wonder if the same can be applied to the Waterman.

[BCastle]

What a lovely looking pen. You are right to be patient and take care. While soaking will soften any ink that might be there it will not loosen the shellac - which does its job by being waterproof! The hairdryer is the way to go. It's gentle heat will expand the barrel part and soften the shellac allowing tool free twisting off of the section. Rubber gloves will help your hands to grip. Gently does it, bit by bit and will care it will be done before you know it!

[domnortheast]

I've found cycling heating and cooling several times works. The pen should never reach a temperature where it is too hot to the touch. I use my upper lip to test.

 

Rotate the pen steadily in front of the heat gun / hair dryer, start further away and move closer if it needs more heat, and test every few seconds. Then when it's warmed up try firm steady twisting pressure (in an unscrewing direction - just in case it has an unexpected threaded section).

If no success let it cool and then repeat.

[Crewel]

@BCastle. Thank you for the advice. The pen is rather nice, and I was surprised to win the bid on this. Having been bitten by the restoration bug, I do want to take care with this one. There are some minor cosmetic issues, but I couldn't care less for the price. A good jeweler's cloth rubbing should make everything shiny.

 

@Stanley Howler. Thanks for the advice. That's where I think I need to proceed to get the section out. I wanted to try the soak method first since I've had success with the Eversharp. I definitely do not want to ruin the pen in the process. Hence my request for advice from the fine folks here @ FPN.

[Ernst Bitterman]

Dry heat doesn't present as much of a discolouring threat as a prolonged soak, and with BHR you can be a lot more free with the heat than with most other pen materials (there is still such a thing as "too much", of course). I know I usually give into trying a little water on the joint if prolonged heating doesn't do the trick, but you're better off with warm air and cool water, ideally with a separation between applications.

[Crewel]

Dry heat doesn't present as much of a discolouring threat as a prolonged soak, and with BHR you can be a lot more free with the heat than with most other pen materials (there is still such a thing as "too much", of course). I know I usually give into trying a little water on the joint if prolonged heating doesn't do the trick, but you're better off with warm air and cool water, ideally with a separation between applications.

 

Good point. Maybe I should try to cycle between the dry heat and soaking as a way of thermally stressing the bond at the joint. I just hope it's only shellac I have to deal as opposed to some sort of permanent adhesive.

 

Anyone have a suggestion for the sac size on this little pen? I'm thinking a #12 or #10.

[Left FPN]

Did you manage to release the section.

 

On a recently acquired 52 I used warm water, then hair drier, then warm water again, then warm water in a vacuum pot (coffee/kitchen vac). Eventually after about 30 minutes it gave in. I used the vac in the hope that some lubricating water would get into the gap once the air was sucket out. Maybe it worked, who knows.

[Crewel]

I'm still having a helluva time trying to get the section out. I have not done enough of these types of restoration work to get a good feel for it yet, but the last time I tried, I managed to remove the sections of a Parker 51 and a Parker Vacumatic using the hair dryer method. That gave me more confidence to do that to the Waterman, but it's still being stubborn.

 

On a tangential note, I'm happy that I managed to disassembled the vacumatic since it has a nice flex/semi-flex nib. Unfortunately, it looks as if some of the diaphragm got cemented to the interior walls just below the hump, and it's a pain in the rear to remove. Been trying to scrape the dried diaphragm with a dental pick without marring the interior of the barrel.

[Crewel]

Just posting an update for anyone interested. Apparently, ahem, the problem I was having was due to, ahem, user error.

 

I thought the section for removal extended all the way to the gold fill on the barrel. Well, that's not the case. The section was actually below the threads towards the nib. Anyhow, I managed to remove the section, , and I am awaiting the new sac to arrive. I used the heating method to loosen the section.

 

By the way, for those looking to resac these types of pens, it seems a #14 sac is the best fit for them. This is from empirical evidence from trying to insert various different sacs I had on hand. A #16 seems to be too big, even a necked one that typically fits into an Eversharp Skyline. A #15 may also work, but it may fit a little too tight and cause binding of the sac.

[londonbooks]

This might help you out a little. When you install the new sac make sure that the barrel will fit over the place where the sac fits onto the section. Sometimes when preparing the section connector for the sac it is possible that you have not removed enough of the old materials (shellac or whatever) from the connector part and you would find that the barrel will not fit over the sac. So it is best to make sure there is room for the barrel before-hand.