Section Question

February 5, 2015

In open nib type sections , I have noted two types of constructions :

a) Solid section [ mostly ebonite or plastic] , drilled through by 5 mm diam at front end to allow the nib & feeder by press fit and the bore expanded to 7.0 to 7.5 mm at the other end to accommodate the converter.

The nib and feeder are housed in a 7 mm OD plastic sleeve whose other end is threaded and engages with internal threads of a metal section [ also platic/ebonite] which is much thinner wall thickness.

The OD of the section grip area is noted generally within 8.5 to 9.5 mm max, perhaps for holding comfort.

My question is, while making a kit-less pen, which is a preferred way of making a section?

Also for hoodless pens like Parker 51/ Hero 616 type, the section has a thin wall outer cover and inside there is a collector unit inside which the the nib and feeder connect. I have also come across old Indian pens with hooded nib in which there are no separate collector unit, a 5 mm hole in which the nib and feeder are press fitted- only the nib needs to be parallel winged.

I am curious , which type of section should be made /generally made when making kitless pens?

February 6, 2015

for the section of an entirely kitless pen your up to your own devices be they ebonite, acrylic, metal or celluloid(if you have access to celluloid) its best that you use what you have and start from there do you like a seamless look by having the section be the same material as the barrel or have an entirely different section by using ebonite,

as for hooded nibs I'm not sure... there's one buy here who was able to make a "hooded" nib from a full body nib

beyond that the turners will help you with the measurements about making the section and the tools needed

February 6, 2015

This depends on whether you are making the pen for yourself or for someone else. A buyer will not like the nib unit to be friction fit. You will have to make the threads inside the section. I don't have much experience with hooded nibs.

February 8, 2015

Inspired by your advice , I made six sections in black ebonite and black poly resin. Request your comments on these, regret poor photos. I also made a kit-less pen from a glass fibre rod-posting here and would post separately as show your pens. \kindly advise for improvement.

February 8, 2015

Very nice.

February 8, 2015

This depends on whether you are making the pen for yourself or for someone else. A buyer will not like the nib unit to be friction fit. You will have to make the threads inside the section. I don't have much experience with hooded nibs.

Thanks Manoj Sir, so a professionally made pen must have a screwed in type nib section. Well noted.

I had been trying to make a slleve tube with various plastics available to me- but these materials at 7mm OD and 5.5 mm ID were becoming too soft to allow threading by die- I have not tried metal tubes so far. What kind of plastic remain rigid enough to accept threading at that size? Or is it Ebonite that is the right material ?

Coming back to the question of screwed in nib unit type section and my difficulty about local plastics becoming too soft at smaller sizes to accept threads, I took off the section of one of my kit pens.

This is the section without the converter.

This is the section unscrewed from the sleeve :

A close view tells me that the black material is quite likely-black ebonite, though I cant be sure. If that turns out true-then the problem is solved for good. That Kolkata shop sells black ebonite rod in every practical diameter and is quite in-expensive.

Please can you advise if ebonite is suitable material for this application?

February 8, 2015

I'm not so sure that a nib and feed can't be friction fit into the section and work well for some kind of ink systems. I saw an old lever fill pen at a friends mother's place that had to be a friction fit because there just wasn't enough room for a feed housing in the plastic section. I wanted to get the pen to study and restore but her grandson liked the green pen so I lost out on it.

The nibs and feeds I use are friction fit into the feed housing (Bock & Schmidt) which are threaded into the section. Skipping the feed housing and friction fitting the feed and nib directly allows for a smaller section for those that don't like bigger pens. It would also allow the nib to be more snugly fit to a section that is hooded. The threaded housing required more clearance to the hood in order to be screwed in. I wouldn't use it for a cartridge pen because pressing on the new cartridge could push the nib and feed out making for a mess. They aren't Ebonite parts as there are injection mould marks on the feed and housing. You would need to make a number of pens and use them yourself for awhile to see if there are any issues with nib and feeds being directly pressed into the sections.

Pete

February 19, 2015

I really like that hooded section. I've been toying with some kitless section designs myself, including a similar hood, but I don't think I could pull it off. I'm waiting until my workshop in the barn thaws out to find out.

February 19, 2015

I don't swap nibs on my pens, so I don't care if the unit is a crew in or a friction fit.

I sense from your recent posts that you are looking to have a process in place to make more standardized pens, in order to produce and sell more pens.

Consider having two options; one friction fit and one screw in or one hooded and one open. The hooded option would set you apart from other turners in the market.

February 19, 2015

I don't swap nibs on my pens, so I don't care if the unit is a crew in or a friction fit.

I sense from your recent posts that you are looking to have a process in place to make more standardized pens, in order to produce and sell more pens.

Consider having two options; one friction fit and one screw in or one hooded and one open. The hooded option would set you apart from other turners in the market.

Thanks very much for this feedback. I was contemplating about selling a few pens- it would be a benchmark of recognition to my efforts. At this point your feedback about hooded nib pens was encouraging, as I find it is not at all difficult and it is one place where much refinement possibilities prevail- though you would need to be agreeable to idea of not being able to showcase the beauty of the nib itself!

February 20, 2015

Now if you can find a way to put exotic inlays on the hoods, people may not want to see the nib.

Where would you get the nibs for the hooded pens? Would you buy Chinese Parker 51 clones by the kilo and pick out the good nibs?

If you really want to have some fun, see what it would take to make a retractable nib; the ones where you turn the pen to push out the nib. Might not be too hard to do from a hooded nib?

February 20, 2015

Now if you can find a way to put exotic inlays on the hoods, people may not want to see the nib.

Where would you get the nibs for the hooded pens? Would you buy Chinese Parker 51 clones by the kilo and pick out the good nibs?

If you really want to have some fun, see what it would take to make a retractable nib; the ones where you turn the pen to push out the nib. Might not be too hard to do from a hooded nib?

I believe you can get 10-packs of tubular Hero 616 nibs from a few sellers on ebay, but the feed might be tricky. The hooded nib pictured looks like it's a regular nib with a hood over it, original-Parker-21-style. The Wality Airmail 77 and Camlin 47 pens use a similar design, standard nib with a hooded section.

I prefer friction-fit (unless the nibs are easily interchangeable like an Esterbrook) and I really like that hooded section. It might look nice with a two-tone nib lined up so that the second tone just peeks out from under the hood. Or if you made it out of clear acrylic, you could have the benefits of the hood while still showing off the nib.

February 20, 2015

A clear acrylic hood would be original for sure. Most of the clear plastics I have seen tend to be brittle though. One would have to be real careful when making it.