Grip And Posture Help

[Space_Elf]

So, I was never really taught anything about writing posture or grip and I'm really struggling with it now. I've been mostly using palmermethod.com for reference. I start out in correct posture and grip, but it feels so unwieldy and the paper is far away. Next thing I know, I'm squeezing the pen, resting the side of my hand on the paper, and hunching over.

 

Are there any suggestions on how to correct my bad habits, or alternate methods I could try?

[Randal6393]

Yep, sounds about right. First lessons in handwriting tend to leave one too concerned with making the student's handwriting look like the templar. Good handwriting takes time to learn and comes from relaxing and "just writing".

 

The website for IAMPETH (www.iampeth.com) is the usual resource I refer people to when they are beginning. The site is, frankly, a mess to navigate since there are several areas with different books and tutorials available. The business writing books cover Ames penmanship, Palmer method, D'Nealian, etc. But the books are in different areas, at times. Would recommend going to the site and reading several different penmanship books. Many have pictures or drawings of how to sit, how to hold the pen, etc. Then commence practice and restrict yourself to a set amount of time. After working on your handwriting, maybe writing out a poem or paragraph or two just for the fun of it. And do not worry about progress or the lack of it. That will occur over time, don't stress over it.

 

Best of luck, have fun, and enjoy yourself,

[knarflj]

Oh, SpaceElf, you are not alone! I'm afraid that time and lots of practice are the only answers to correcting the bad habits of years. It can feel very discouraging at first - either your writing looks really messy, or you find that you're "death-gripping" your pen AGAIN. For what seems like forever. But if you stick with it, eventually you will realize one day that your hand is comfortably placed and writing for long periods, AND you're actually producing something legible.

 

There is lots of good advice in various threads here at FPN, as you've probably discovered. Ymmv, but the single thread that has helped me most to consistently begin with the correct grip is this one:

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/280674-dons-tripod-grip-theory/

 

And the single post that has most helped me to stay relaxed and use my whole arm rather than just fingers to move the pen is this one:

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/270659-spencerian-controlled-speed/?p=3148414

 

Stick with it, practice regularly, be patient with yourself. Keep some of your practice sheets, so that you can look back periodically and see that you really ARE making progress.

 

 

Jenny

[Space_Elf]

Thank you both for your responses. I have gone through the IAMPETH site, bust most of it seems to reiterate what texts I own have laid out. I will try out the two links and see if that makes a difference, but I suppose I just need to try and not get discouraged.

[ac12]

SE

Most of the time, when you or anyone tries something new, it will feel odd/uncomfortable ... etc.

This is natural. Especially when you have MANY years of using a different method, so anything different will be uncomfortable.

My advice is to stick with it.

Practice make perfect.

But only if the practice is of the desired method. Practicing what you want to get rid of, does you no good, and in fact could harm your desire to improve.

So, if things get bad, put down the pen and walk away.

Come back to it later.

 

Example.

I used to be a finger writer.

Then I decided I wanted to improve my handwriting and at the same time use my arm to write with.

In the beginning it was HARD, and my writing was UGLY. I had virtually NO fine motor control of my arm for writing. Everything felt awkward and clumsy.

But I got pig-headed, and kept going.

All along, I had to keep watching my arm to make sure that I did not regress into finger writing.

3 months later, I suddenly realized that I was writing with my arm.

 

All I can say is retraining your muscles is a tedious process, because you have to retrain your muscles to do something it did not do before, and in fact did in a different method. And you have to convince your muscles and your inner self that the new method is correct and to not regress.

[Space_Elf]

I suspect that is a large part of my problem. I've got twenty-odd years of bad grip and posture habits to shed. I think I sort of had myself convinced that the correct way would feel natural and therefore the transition would be fairly easy. Obviously, reality is proving otherwise. Perhaps every time I catch myself lapsing, I should sit up and have another cup of tea before continuing.

[knarflj]

  On 2/3/2015 at 6:34 AM, Space_Elf said:

Perhaps every time I catch myself lapsing, I should sit up and have another cup of tea before continuing.

Another cup of tea always helps!

[Helen350]

  On 2/3/2015 at 6:34 AM, Space_Elf said:

I suspect that is a large part of my problem. I've got twenty-odd years of bad grip and posture habits to shed. I think I sort of had myself convinced that the correct way would feel natural and therefore the transition would be fairly easy. Obviously, reality is proving otherwise. Perhaps every time I catch myself lapsing, I should sit up and have another cup of tea before continuing.

20 yrs of correction. Then I am in trouble--I've got 62 yrs of bad writing habits to correct. I tend to write utilizing my wrist. I find myself able to write for 2-3 hrs before having to stop. Will writing using my arm extend my writing time? I also tend to slouch a bit when sitting for extended periods, leaning over the table (always thought I did this because I am short). I think I will need a pot of tea, not just a cup

[Space_Elf]

Well, part of the benefit of the cup of tea is relaxing my hand after I've caught myself giving my pen the death grip. Holding the warm mug of tea helps.

[ac12]

The whole sitting/posture/table/etc comes into play.

I do best on a table/desk with an adjustable chair. Then I can get my arm to feel comfortable on the table.

Other than that, I try to make do, such as at the kitchen table. Not the best setup, but workable.

I do better when I can get my elbow onto the table, rather than have it floating off the table.

Good or at least decent lighting is important. Writing in shadow gives me a headache.

 

Hellen,

2-3 hours is as long as you really want to do it. You gotta rest and shake out the arm and back. I think the longest I did was about 3 hours, using arm writing. That was when I was journaling a LOT as I was practicing writing. And yes, being short bring your face closer to the paper. So does sr citizen eyes (me), but my glasses (tri-focals) don't focus that close, so I have to lift my head to focus on the writing. And take it from someone with a bad back, slouching is not good. I use a straight back chair and sit in deep, to reduce my tendency to slouch.

[AnneHW]

I'm glad I'm not the only one! I've been struggling like crazy with holding my pen correctly. I've been so frustrated at times. And even though there are some wonderful threads, with drawings and photos, on this subject, I'm just not good at figuring out how to put it together.

 

So, I'm hoping this link is going to work and you'll find it helpful!

 

 

It's meant for children who are learning to write (there's even a song only a little kid could appreciate!). And he's using a pencil, but it's really helpful. You get to see how he's holding the pen from different angles and how it looks from the top when he's actually writing.

 

This is actually part of a really good website I found on cursive writing, peterson-handwriting.com. Again, it's geared towards kids and it's meant for teachers and home schooling. I bought two of the ebooks, which I thought were reasonable because you can print out the practice pages (and there are lots). You can preview everything, but you can only print if you purchase. I have no affiliation! But the other nice thing is they are very easy to contact. I had a couple of questions and got a response via email within a very short time.

 

I've been struggling since I started using fountain pens in October and grip has been a major problem for me forever! I've practiced a lot and have started to improve a little, but this program is what I needed.

 

I hope this will help someone.

[ac12]

Interesting video

The grip is similar to the ones that I have seen in old Palmer and Spencerian instruction books. And it will work well for flex nibs, because you would be doing the downstroke in line with the nib, a downward pulling motion, rather than a cross/diagonal stroke when held at about 30 degrees to the right as I had been taught.

[htdavidht]

One of the reasons why I got a Lamy safari is because this pen is made for the right grip, so follow the shape of the pen and it will show you how it is done.

[Drawing61]

In my struggle to improve my handwriting someone on this site recommended a book by Rosemary Sassoon. It has been very helpful, particulary a technique to learn to relax my hand by holding the pen in an unorthodox position. After practising this method for a bit I loosened up considerably. Strange that when I draw there is total relaxation but writing brings on tenseness.

Attached (I hope) is an illustration from Ms Sassoons book.

[AnneHW]

Thanks, I just tried that and it does seem to work! (My grip is tight even when I'm drawing, especially if it's detailed!)

[sidthecat]

One of the useful side effects of taking a life-drawing class is that most decent teachers will show their students how to draw from the shoulder, standing up at an easel.

[ac12]

I remember art class in 7th grade. We had to draw looking at the subject, and NOT looking at the paper, which was a BIG sheet of paper, so you had to arm/shoulder draw.

But as soon as I got a pencil onto regular paper, I switched back to finger writing.

[Space_Elf]

I've been making real efforts to write from the shoulder, but the results make me cry. I just can't seem to manage legibility. Still, if I just keep working at it, I'm sure it'll come eventually.

 

Thank you a billion for the different resources.

[pmhudepo]

Space_Elf: that sounds very familiar! When I started to improve my handwriting and discovered whole arm movement, my writing became large and irregular, looked clumsy. Yuck.

 

Keep at it, see what you can learn from, for instance, the Palmer method or Edward C. Mills' Modern Business Penmanship.

 

What I also found helpful was not writing. Use your pen to do the various drills, to doodle, draw, sketch, but don't write. Occasionally fill a page with ovals, shapes, little drawings, just so you'll get comfortable with using the pen in a light, fluid fashion. If bad habits like death grip are associated with writing, using a pen for something else, might help in getting rid of these habits. Gradually move towards writing. You can probably imagine how a series of loops can 'evolve' in words like 'all' or 'little'.

 

I suppose one argument against the above is that a series of loops is not the proper base for many letters -- you'll need different strokes as well to get the desired letter shapes. But it may still be a good warming-up exercise before concentrating on the proper construction of letters.

[Intellidepth]

Space elf, the few times I've tried this, it seemed to work better if I just felt that my bent arm was hanging fluidly from my shoulder and that the shoulder was merely a pivoting point for what the rest of my arm needed to do. I found that if the distance between my shoulder and the table was wrong, I couldn't let it hang, and instead I was all tensed up in the shoulder and my writing got worse really quickly.

 

I also found that writing larger, in my case much larger, helped with flow. (I naturally write small.)

 

Having said that, I don't have a table set up to do it properly, so was half-standing half-sitting for those trials that worked, which was equally uncomfortable! I wish I had one of those old stand-up writing desks.

 

I also have an old shoulder injury, so unless the writing surface is set up ergonomically, trying to write this way gives me a lot of pain due to tensing on a too-high table.