... homemade journal ...

[pen2paper]

Just had to comment on the inset Escher print... such beautiful work... a delight for the eyes.

[TMLee]

Thanks "Jesse.bo" and "timjthomas"

 

And yes "pen2paper" , his artworks are fascinating.

Especially his 'impossible' drawings...

 

I will probably use this next on a cover ....

 

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u236/TMLee/Stationery%20Paraphernalia/Escher%20Artworks/A1FF9923-7BB4-4039-B0BF-D95DE607F938-6335-00000910FD703112.jpg

 

Some of these are very close to A5 size and I find it difficult to incorporate them onto A5 covers cos there is hardly any cover space left round the artwork.

:hmm1: :hmm1: :hmm1:

Edited February 12, 2013 by TMLee

[TMLee]

Just received Tomoe River paper ...

 

trying out ...

 

Gee ... the paper is so thin , its difficult to work with it, folding , cutting , etc ...

 

Because its so thin, I have to pack in more folios per signature in order to retain the same strength of the signature that can withstand the stitching process.

 

Guess how many folios in one signature here ...

Its pictured here with the Ostrich Leather covers.

Its not stitched yet.

Just trying out for size...

and studying how such a thin paper impacts my journalmaking ...

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u236/TMLee/2011/2012/2012%20Journals/Journal%20166%20Ostrich%20Leather/008-1.jpg

 

Its so slim, its just a tad thicker than my SLIMLINE journals ...

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u236/TMLee/2011/2012/2012%20Journals/Journal%20166%20Ostrich%20Leather/007-1.jpg

 

I am not sure whether to retain the same number of signatures (7) or to reduce them to perhaps 5.

Edited February 15, 2013 by TMLee

[TMLee]

This one's green covers were completed a long time ago.

 

Plain green cotton but DIY into bookcloth.

 

This is Journal #151 "Plain Green Cotton" A6 size

 

This is a prototype using TOMOE River paper in the bookblock.

 

The TOMOE River paper is Cream , exactly A4 size.

 

Its very thin at 52gsm only.

 

I find it a challenge to use this paper in the bookblock.

Its very thin and very fiddly to work with. Simple becos its so thin and flimsy.

 

I did a review of this TOMOE River paper here...

 

The paper is very thin and so it gave way quite easily.

Not rigid enough to keep to its shape.

I am using the double needle coptic stitch and I just have this feeling that such thin paper requires a lot more skill to keep its shape as a bookblock.

 

I should think that a much thinner thread and a different coptic stitch (single-needle) should be more manageable. Furthermore such a single-needle stitch can be hidden in the spine of the book and not exposed.

 

As soon as I finished stitching, and started clamping, I found that I could not keep the signatures neat in their shape. There is a tendency for the signatures to deform, to slide and give way to the stresses imposed by the thread.

 

Here , its clamped , as usual . awaiting the glue to dry on the spine.

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u236/TMLee/2011/2011%20JOURNALS/Journal%20151%20Plain%20Green%20Cotton/001.jpg

 

I decided to glue the spine becos I felt the paper could move out of position between signatures. And being so thin, I guessed it might tear easier.

 

I decided to remove the clamp as soon as the glue was touch dry.

I was afraid the clamping for longer duration will squash the bookblock more , and out of shape becos the TR papers are so soft and thin.

 

I couldn't keep the signatures all level and even. :bonk:

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u236/TMLee/2011/2011%20JOURNALS/Journal%20151%20Plain%20Green%20Cotton/004.jpg

 

 

I was experimenting with the number of folios and kept adding till I reached a thickness comparable to my usual journal thickness - no thicker than 15mm - 20mm.

Here the number of folios in each of the seven signatures is TEN !!!

and the total number of writing pages is a whopping 280 pages !

The resultant thickness of the journal is the same as my usual journals.

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u236/TMLee/2011/2011%20JOURNALS/Journal%20151%20Plain%20Green%20Cotton/006.jpg

 

 

I havent decided if I should reduce the number of signatures.

Any opinions? Especially those of you who have already stitched some journals using TR paper.

 

 

 

Front

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u236/TMLee/2011/2011%20JOURNALS/Journal%20151%20Plain%20Green%20Cotton/010.jpg

 

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u236/TMLee/2011/2011%20JOURNALS/Journal%20151%20Plain%20Green%20Cotton/011.jpg

 

I used 0.8mm flat profile threads in order to not add bulk to the bookblock.

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u236/TMLee/2011/2011%20JOURNALS/Journal%20151%20Plain%20Green%20Cotton/014.jpg

 

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u236/TMLee/2011/2011%20JOURNALS/Journal%20151%20Plain%20Green%20Cotton/013.jpg

 

I used yellow stitches to match the lemon yellow flyleaves.

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u236/TMLee/2011/2011%20JOURNALS/Journal%20151%20Plain%20Green%20Cotton/012.jpg

 

I havent added any ribbon marker yet , becos I am wondering how to now, since the bulk of the knot will pose a problem

 

What is interesting is that it lies really super flat easily , becos its papers are very soft and fall under its own weight ...

This is a pic of the first few signature - BETWEEN signatures where there is some glue between signatures.

The paper just lays flat.

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u236/TMLee/2011/2011%20JOURNALS/Journal%20151%20Plain%20Green%20Cotton/018.jpg

 

This is another pic of the signatures more towards the centre of the book ...

same effect, it opens really flat as if no glue on the spine at all.

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u236/TMLee/2011/2011%20JOURNALS/Journal%20151%20Plain%20Green%20Cotton/019.jpg

 

This kind of paper perhaps work better with much thinner thread.

But for the exposed type of stitching that I do, it doesnt look good.

 

I havent done the inktestpage yet.

 

And I havent done the Colophon yet.

(I wonder how am I gonna cut out my logo? :hmm1: - the paper is so thin)

 

 

 

Will experiment some more.

 

 

Edit ...

 

I added a ribbon pagemarker as I usually do...

have to be careful, whilst pulling thru, the ribbon was able to pull away the last sheet of folio, near disaster !

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u236/TMLee/2011/2011%20JOURNALS/Journal%20151%20Plain%20Green%20Cotton/002-1.jpg

 

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u236/TMLee/2011/2011%20JOURNALS/Journal%20151%20Plain%20Green%20Cotton/004-1.jpg

 

The inktestpage

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u236/TMLee/2011/2011%20JOURNALS/Journal%20151%20Plain%20Green%20Cotton/005-1.jpg

 

The rear of that page

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u236/TMLee/2011/2011%20JOURNALS/Journal%20151%20Plain%20Green%20Cotton/006-1.jpg

 

The Colophon

Pelikan M620 Chicago <B> DIY Stub

filled with DIAMINE Monaco Red

and

ROSETTA North Star <M> italic by pb2

filled with NOODLERS X-Feather (Black)

I didnt cut out my logo , the paper was really thin ...

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u236/TMLee/2011/2011%20JOURNALS/Journal%20151%20Plain%20Green%20Cotton/007-1.jpg

 

The rear of this Colophon ..

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u236/TMLee/2011/2011%20JOURNALS/Journal%20151%20Plain%20Green%20Cotton/009-1.jpg

 

 

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u236/TMLee/2011/2011%20JOURNALS/Journal%20151%20Plain%20Green%20Cotton/001-1.jpg

Edited February 18, 2013 by TMLee

[requiescat]

This one's green covers were completed a long time ago.

 

Plain green cotton but DIY into bookcloth.

 

This is Journal #151 "Plain Green Cotton" A6 size

 

This is a prototype using TOMOE River paper in the bookblock.

 

The TOMOE River paper is Cream , exactly A4 size.

 

Its very thin at 52gsm only.

 

I find it a challenge to use this paper in the bookblock.

Its very thin and very fiddly to work with. Simple becos its so thin and flimsy.

[snip] Thanks so much for these notes--I'd been curious about using this paper for bookbinding myself.

[penhand]

First, my apologies for cluttering up the wonderful TMLee thread with my poor journal attempts, but I wanted to illustrate my experience with making journals from Tomoe River paper.

 

My first attempt was an A7 journal with 8 folios in 5 signatures

 

http://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/w397/penhand/IMG_1688copy_zpsd157b879.jpg

 

http://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/w397/penhand/IMG_1689copy_zps2c7f3797.jpg

 

My second attempt was an A5 journal with 8 folios in 8 signatures

 

http://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/w397/penhand/IMG_1684copy_zps97fd332f.jpg

 

My third attempt was an A5 journal with 8 folios in 12 signatures

 

http://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/w397/penhand/IMG_1677copy_zps881e7da8.jpg

 

http://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/w397/penhand/IMG_1679copy_zpsd0a1a2a7.jpg

 

http://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/w397/penhand/IMG_1680copy_zps20a4bc99.jpg

 

TMLee is correct that the pages just "fall open" which makes writing on them a treat, although they tend to have a little "spring" which means you need to hold some pages down while writing.

 

I'm not sure which is better, more folios or more signatures. Because the paper is so slick and difficult to align while working with, I'd guess more folios and less signatures. As can be seen in my attempts, as the number of signatures increased, it became more difficult to keep everything aligned while stitching the block.

[TMLee]

Thanks "penhand" for posting.

No apologies needed.

I was hoping to learn from others' experience with this paper.

 

Your pictures are useful.

 

Did you apply glue on the spine?

 

I can agree that as the number of signatures increase, there is a greater challenge to keep them from sliding out of position one above the other.

 

1) I am not sure. Maybe the thread gauges we are using are too thick for this paper?

 

2) It just occurred to me maybe we should have more sewing stations. :hmm1:

Doing so would keep each signature more 'homogenous' , reducing slack and sliding ...

 

Not sure. Opinions anyone? .

 

Only way to find out more is to try out various combinations of

- thread gauges

- number of signatures

- and number of folios.

 

I'll probably try one slimline journal with this , using thinner threads ,

Maybe even one with dental floss.

[penhand]

Did you apply glue on the spine?

 

I can agree that as the number of signatures increase, there is a greater challenge to keep them from sliding out of position one above the other.

 

1) I am not sure. Maybe the thread gauges we are using are too thick for this paper?

 

2) It just occurred to me maybe we should have more sewing stations. :hmm1:

Doing so would keep each signature more 'homogenous' , reducing slack and sliding ...

 

I always glue the spine since it seems to really stiffen it up. I use bookbinding white glue since it dries clear.

 

The thread I use is fairly thick (it is a large spool of heavy polyester sewing thread my wife got years ago at a garage sale or similar -- super strong), think sewing heavy jeans or canvas.

 

Maybe we can learn something by looking at the images at Design Y http://design-y.near-mint.com/aboutus.html

 

My only problem is there are so many pages in one journal with the Tomoe River paper being so thin that I don't get to work on new journals very often since they last so long. I'm using a sheet of blotter paper tucked into the journal and now don't have to give the slow ink drying a second thought since I write on both sides and any wet ink goes against the blotter paper.

 

I'm thinking next time maybe trying 12 folios per signature. Per your suggestion, I fold each folio individually.

[TMLee]

 

Maybe we can learn something by looking at the images at Design Y http://design-y.near-mint.com/aboutus.html

 

Thanks for the link.

 

Yes, he uses very thin thread. Thats an important clue.

And I cant see from the pic, how many stations he's sewing ? :hmm1:

 

.... and I like his StarTrek Enterprise model !!!! really nice

 

 

 

My only problem is there are so many pages in one journal with the Tomoe River paper being so thin that I don't get to work on new journals very often since they last so long. I'm using a sheet of blotter paper tucked into the journal and now don't have to give the slow ink drying a second thought since I write on both sides and any wet ink goes against the blotter paper.

 

Well, you can stitch some more journals and stash them away for future use .

 

I'm thinking next time maybe trying 12 folios per signature. Per your suggestion, I fold each folio individually.

 

Yup, but I find the folded signature very stubborn when I try to fold them the other way round (to place on the piercing cradle). They dont fold crisply backwards.

Why is that ?

Edited February 19, 2013 by TMLee

[TMLee]

This was Journal 147 Jet Black Bookcloth SLIMLINE journal .

 

It was made a long time ago.

 

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u236/TMLee/2011/2011%20JOURNALS/Journal%20147%20Jet%20Black%20Bookcloth/DSCF6003.jpg

 

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u236/TMLee/2011/2011%20JOURNALS/Journal%20147%20Jet%20Black%20Bookcloth/DSCF5999.jpg

 

 

Only 7 signatures but 4 Folios each.

Sugarcane bagasse paper by CANEFIELDS , 80g.

The spine here is unglued.

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u236/TMLee/2011/2011%20JOURNALS/Journal%20147%20Jet%20Black%20Bookcloth/001.jpg

 

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u236/TMLee/2011/2011%20JOURNALS/Journal%20147%20Jet%20Black%20Bookcloth/002.jpg

 

The stitches are dental floss

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u236/TMLee/2011/2011%20JOURNALS/Journal%20147%20Jet%20Black%20Bookcloth/006.jpg

 

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u236/TMLee/2011/2011%20JOURNALS/Journal%20147%20Jet%20Black%20Bookcloth/008.jpg

 

Here the stitches are so thin , they dont occupy any space in the signatures.

 

I wonder if the TR paper will benefit from such a thread.

 

But the signatures here are stiffer and they keep their shape.

 

This journal was stained with expired tea bags.

When dried completely, like weeks , the paper remained ink friendly and no bleedthru nor feathering. I was quite impressed.

Crafted in 2009.

 

No glued spine

No band closure

No ribbon pagemarker

Edited February 19, 2013 by TMLee

[penhand]

Yup, but I find the folded signature very stubborn when I try to fold them the other way round (to place on the piercing cradle). They dont fold crisply backwards.

Why is that ?

Do you pierce each folio individually or the entire signature? I pierce the entire signature at once with a thin awl. I also don't have a piercing cradle and just use a guide sheet in the center of the signature and pierce them flat on the table with 2 layers of cardboard underneath.

 

I remember seeing a picture earlier of an early piercing cradle, are you still using that one? Also what do you mean "fold crisply backwards", can you show with a picture (or point me to an earlie pic)?

[TMLee]

Yup, but I find the folded signature very stubborn when I try to fold them the other way round (to place on the piercing cradle). They dont fold crisply backwards.

Why is that ?

Do you pierce each folio individually or the entire signature? I pierce the entire signature at once with a thin awl. I also don't have a piercing cradle and just use a guide sheet in the center of the signature and pierce them flat on the table with 2 layers of cardboard underneath.

 

I remember seeing a picture earlier of an early piercing cradle, are you still using that one? Also what do you mean "fold crisply backwards", can you show with a picture (or point me to an earlie pic)?

 

 

Here is the piercing cradle I made ...

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=28367&view=findpost&p=343843

 

 

I pierce the whole signature at one go.

 

What I do is to mark with a pencil, the stations on the spine of the bookblock.

 

Then I take each signature, fold them backwards and lay them on the "V" of the cradle,

Then

Pierce with an awl.

[jesse.bo]

Yup, but I find the folded signature very stubborn when I try to fold them the other way round (to place on the piercing cradle). They dont fold crisply backwards.

Why is that ?

Do you pierce each folio individually or the entire signature? I pierce the entire signature at once with a thin awl. I also don't have a piercing cradle and just use a guide sheet in the center of the signature and pierce them flat on the table with 2 layers of cardboard underneath.

 

I remember seeing a picture earlier of an early piercing cradle, are you still using that one? Also what do you mean "fold crisply backwards", can you show with a picture (or point me to an earlie pic)?

I thought I'd put my 2 cents in. In lieu of a sewing cradle, a big fat book opened to the middle will work. I did my first few books with such a tool before building my own. The only reason I went with the cradle is I love to build stuff and prove you don't need a lot of money for tools.

 

As far as the signature size for the Tomoe River in particular, I recently bound two books with TR paper (thank you PenHand!) and I went with 12 sheets per signature, folded in half made 24 sheets and 48 sides. As I sold them both quite quickly I only have one picture of the spine.

 

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8392/8488564455_36d2743a06_b.jpg

 

I found it quite easy to work with; you have to remember that paper has a grain. Even with thin paper the grain will affect everything: folding the signatures will be messy when folding against the grain, pages won't stay open or shut properly, etc.

 

As far as the sewing of this delightfully thin and fragile paper, I use a sewing frame (once again, homemade for $5-ish) and the very tight tape keeps all of the signatures aligned at the spine, you still need to keep an eye on the vertical (head to tail) alignment.

 

Biggest advice I can give you when sewing without a frame: to get the thread properly tight, and without tearing the paper between stations, always pull AWAY from the direction you are coming from, meaning if you are sewing right to left, pull to the left when tightening, and nearly at the same plane as the spine.

 

Ok, I'll leave this thread alone now.

 

TMLee your books are beautiful, I haven't bound any exposed spines yet, they are delightful!

[TMLee]

Thank you Jesse.bo for your input.

 

They are helpful.

 

So far , my experience is limited to A6 size.

Maybe I Shld try A5 size like your specimen above and see the difference , esp in the folding , grain direction etc.

 

I don't have a sewing cradle.

That might make a difference.

Any links to learn how to fabricate one?

 

I assume your thread used above are thin?

Say #25 gauge?

[D Armstrong]

I don't have a sewing cradle.

That might make a difference.

Any links to learn how to fabricate one?

 

I'm going to pop in here and make your day.

 

http://www.philobiblon.com/bonefolder/

 

 

This is a public domain emagazine, now defunct, dedicated to the book arts. Issue #1 has an article on making a bulletproof punching jig for about $2. And, of course, there are lots of other articles (including a doozy on tool-making by Jeff Peachy, who is a big name in the business.)

 

I'm just in the end stages of a 12mo-sized leather-bound Tomoe River journal for a customer, and am quite happy with how it has gone. I concur that gluing the sections together is required with this paper, due to its slipperiness.

 

I don't know that I would use dental floss for section sewing, though. Slippery + slippery = slipperier? The nice thing about linen thread is that it grabs the paper and holds it in place which, when you think of it, is what sewing paper is all about. Also, too fine and it will definitely cut through this paper. Keep in mind, too, that sinking slightly thicker thread into the signatures is a time-honored method in bookbinding. You can get quite a good variety of book thread from Talas, and it's not something to cut costs on, nor to kludge, as it really is the backbone of what you are doing. And this is especially so if you are doing exposed-spine binding, where there will be minimal (or no) gluing, for aesthetic reasons.

[TMLee]

 

I'm going to pop in here and make your day.

 

http://www.philobiblon.com/bonefolder/

 

 

This is a public domain emagazine, now defunct, dedicated to the book arts. Issue #1 has an article on making a bulletproof punching jig for about $2. And, of course, there are lots of other articles (including a doozy on tool-making by Jeff Peachy, who is a big name in the business.)

 

Thanks a bundle

 

I shall read it up.

 

 

I'm just in the end stages of a 12mo-sized leather-bound Tomoe River journal for a customer, and am quite happy with how it has gone. I concur that gluing the sections together is required with this paper, due to its slipperiness.

 

Sorry , what is a "12mo-size" ?

A5 in size ?

 

Yes, I do agree, its very smooth paper, I notice it tends to slide over each other when i try to clamp them down. It was the problem I encountered in my first journal above.

 

I havent found a solution to this yet.

 

 

I don't know that I would use dental floss for section sewing, though. Slippery + slippery = slipperier? The nice thing about linen thread is that it grabs the paper and holds it in place which, when you think of it, is what sewing paper is all about. Also, too fine and it will definitely cut through this paper. Keep in mind, too, that sinking slightly thicker thread into the signatures is a time-honored method in bookbinding. You can get quite a good variety of book thread from Talas, and it's not something to cut costs on, nor to kludge, as it really is the backbone of what you are doing. And this is especially so if you are doing exposed-spine binding, where there will be minimal (or no) gluing, for aesthetic reasons.

 

Yes, I have experienced thin threads ripping the signatures when over-tensioning.

 

Is there some sort of thumbrule for choosing thread size in relation to Signature thickness ? Or to paper thickness ?

 

I am unsure whether to try thicker signatures. :hmm1:

 

What do you think?

 

For the exposed stitching that I am doing, I cant bear to lose the beauty of the aesthetics when I use thinner gauge threads. Thats my biggest challenge I have at the moment.

[jesse.bo]

 

I'm going to pop in here and make your day.

 

http://www.philobiblon.com/bonefolder/

 

 

This is a public domain emagazine, now defunct, dedicated to the book arts. Issue #1 has an article on making a bulletproof punching jig for about $2. And, of course, there are lots of other articles (including a doozy on tool-making by Jeff Peachy, who is a big name in the business.)

 

Thanks a bundle

 

I shall read it up.

 

Good stuff, I have made most of my tools myself (sewing frame, to leather stamps) and I'll give this a good look, Jeff Peachy has some great stuff.

 

Sorry , what is a "12mo-size" ?

A5 in size ?

 

12mo, also known as duodecimo refers to the number of sheets per signature, in this case 12 sheets folded into a signature making 48 pages. check out this site for more fun stuff.

 

Yes, I do agree, its very smooth paper, I notice it tends to slide over each other when i try to clamp them down. It was the problem I encountered in my first journal above.

 

I havent found a solution to this yet.

 

On tricky books I have been known to square the spine and the head of the pages then clamp the fore edge so as to hold the signatures in place so I can nip the spine either in a press or with a backing hammer without signatures (usually the second one) slipping inside.

 

Yes, I have experienced thin threads ripping the signatures when over-tensioning.

 

Is there some sort of thumbrule for choosing thread size in relation to Signature thickness ? Or to paper thickness ?

 

I am unsure whether to try thicker signatures. :hmm1:

 

What do you think?

 

if you are using bigger, fewer signatures you can get away with using a thicker gauge thread because you will have less "thread bulk." But a 12mo with paper this thin renders the point moot because it is as if you are using 6mo of thicker paper. Thread gauge to collective paper weight ratio is the about the same.

 

 

For the exposed stitching that I am doing, I cant bear to lose the beauty of the aesthetics when I use thinner gauge threads. Thats my biggest challenge I have at the moment.

check out Inabindsupplies where you can find some reasonably priced, reasonably thin waxed Irish linen thread, lots of wonderful colors to choose from.

[TMLee]

Thank you very much for your replies.

 

You learn something' new everyday

 

And thanks for the links too

[KCat]

Such fascinating stuff and such beautiful work. TMLee, your journals never cease to amaze me. You have such a great eye for color and artwork.

 

I love my journals. I wish my handwriting wasn't such a horrible scrawl so I could post a picture or two in that other thread.

[D Armstrong]

Sorry , what is a "12mo-size" ? A5 in size ?

 

Heh heh. It's a very relative term. There is a very good pictorial on the wikipedia page "Book Sizes".

 

Is there some sort of thumbrule for choosing thread size in relation to Signature thickness ? Or to paper thickness ?

 

Hmmm. The best guidelines I have seen are in Jen Lindsay's "Fine Bookbinding: a Technical Guide", where she firmly says 'it depends'. For this application I am not backing at all, just paring down the board edges, so section swell isn't quite the factor it usually is in choosing thread thickness. I have been using 18/3 (which is 18 gauge thread, with three plies), mostly because it is what I have on hand. But I think I may switch to 18/2.

 

I am unsure whether to try thicker signatures.

 

I have been using 10-sheet (20 leaf, or 40 page) sections, which does seem to balance strength with thickness.

 

For the exposed stitching that I am doing, I cant bear to lose the beauty of the aesthetics when I use thinner gauge threads. Thats my biggest challenge I have at the moment.

 

Heh heh. Of course, when you are hiding behind headbands and lambskin you don't have to worry so much about perfectly even signatures.

 

Have you seen Keith Smith's books on stitch wizardry? Just leafing through them is enough to make you dizzy!

 

check out Inabindsupplies where you can find some reasonably priced, reasonably thin waxed Irish linen thread, lots of wonderful colors to choose from.

 

The colors certainly cover the rainbow. I don't see much information on thread size, though.

 

If you like silk, in the whole color spectrum, try Treenway Silks. Hmmm. Kumihimo place ribbons anyone?