Small Stub Lovers Unite

[Intensity]

Is the Pilot Metropolitan stub nib also ground to write more consistently near vertical angle (like Pilot VP stubs or Sailor MS nib), or is it lacking tipping like Lamy steel nibs and can be used well for Western cursive writing at ~45 degree angle from vertical?

[A Smug Dill]

Is the Pilot Metropolitan stub nib also ground to write more consistently near vertical angle (like Pilot VP stubs or Sailor MS nib), or is it lacking tipping like Lamy steel nibs and can be used well for Western cursive writing at ~45 degree angle from vertical?

 

 

The Pilot Plumix/CM steel nibs have no tipping that I can see, but I wouldn't be the best person to judge the effect of incident angle of nib to page, because (believe it or not) I write predominantly in English with fountain pens in everyday applications, but I've always held my pens at approximately 60° — steep when I'm writing in Chinese, and slightly shallower when I'm writing in English in either an italic or cursive hand — so that's "normal" to me, whereas 45° is a case of, "How the hell do you write like that? Isn't that uncomfortable?"

[AmandaW]

A Pilot steel 'CM' nib on an MR (which a lot of people erroneously call 'Pilot Metropolitan')

I understood - circa 2017 - it was Metropolitan when produced for the US market and MR for the European (with some minor change - size of converter it could take?). I call mine Metropolitan since I ordered from the US. I could be wrong. Or it could have changed.

[A Smug Dill]

I understood - circa 2017 - it was Metropolitan when produced for the US market and MR for the European (with some minor change - size of converter it could take?). I call mine Metropolitan since I ordered from the US. I could be wrong. Or it could have changed.

Yes, there may have been a name change in how the North American (or just US) distributor marketed the product; but, on Pilot Corporation of America's web site (https://pilotpen.us) today — and I've been looking at the issue for a while now — it clearly shows the model as " Pilot MR: Metropolitan collection". I understand that Metropolitan was the first series or range in the MR product line, so much so that in Australia the MR Metropolitan collection is known as the MR1 (and the MR Animal collection as the MR2, the MR Retro Pop collection as the MR3). I'm not sure if Pilot changed North American distributor changed (as in different companies) in the past few years, whether the same company's nomenclature has changed, or whether it was just the US retailers and/or pen reviewers deciding it's easier or more palatable to unsuspecting US consumers to call it "the Metropolitan" as opposed to "the MR" before the other collections were introduced.

 

I actually have an MR Metropolitan (in 'gold') here that I ordered from Amazon (sold and shipped by Amazon US) just under two years ago, and the instructions booklet/insert inside the retail packaging clearly says "Pilot MR".

 

 

so I'm not sure why so many people still talk about "Pilot Metropolitan" (without the "MR") in the last two years since I've been actively reading and posting on FPN.

[AmandaW]

 

 

so I'm not sure why so many people still talk about "Pilot Metropolitan" (without the "MR") in the last two years since I've been actively reading and posting on FPN.

 

Maybe they bought from Jetpens? I just went to compare my 2017 invoice with their site - nothing has changed. Still called Metropolitan.

 

Edited to add: the price changed. I only paid $14.50. Now that's inflation!

 

Edited September 9, 2020 by AmandaW

[A Smug Dill]

Maybe they bought from Jetpens?

I don't know what to say about that, other than "thank you."

[Intensity]

It's called Metropolitan in USA. Gouletpens, for example:

 

https://www.gouletpens.com/collections/pilot-metropolitan-fountain-pens

 

Amazon.com

https://www.amazon.com/Pilot-Metropolitan-Collection-Fountain-91107/dp/B009X9Z2FW

 

Pilot USA calls it "MR Metropolitan Collection" for the plain color pens:

http://pilotpen.us/categories/fountain-pens/mr-metropolitan-fountain-pen/

 

I think it used to be Metropolitan for all color combinations.

Edited September 9, 2020 by Intensity

[Muncle]

A Pilot steel 'CM' nib on an MR (which a lot of people erroneously call 'Pilot Metropolitan') or 'M' nib on a Plumix should be right up your alley out-of-the-box, then.

 

 

I don't. https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/351259-what-pens-are-you-using-today-2020/?p=4355818

Thank you. That might be a way to go before paying for an expensive grind. Now to find a CM nib..

[A Smug Dill]

Thank you. That might be a way to go before paying for an expensive grind. Now to find a CM nib..

 

The easy way is to look for a Plumix, e.g. https://www.amazon.com/s?k=plumix

 

If you looking for that nib on the Pilot MR, sometimes it's listed as either having an Italic or having a Stub nib, even though absolutely nothing on the nib or feed will attest to it being either of those things.

 

It's called Metropolitan in USA.

_...‹snip›...

Pilot USA calls it "MR Metropolitan Collection" for the plain color pens:

_...‹snip›...

I think it used to be Metropolitan for all color combinations.

As much as I'd love to see an example of the leaflet/booklet from a US retail package dating back to 2013 or so, just to see whether it said "Pilot Metropolitan" or "Pilot MR Metropolitan", it's academic. What Pilot USA (or Pilot Corporation of America), as the regional distributor, calls the model today is what it is called in USA (in the present tense); it isn't up to any retailer to authoritatively give it a different name.

 

In the Amazon.com listing, if you look under the section with the heading, "From the manufacturer", it is clear that the model is Pilot MR and not Pilot Metropolitan. The retailer (yes, even if it's Amazon) may err, and the consumer may err, but whatever Pilot USA calls it is definitive.

 

And, as you can see from the screenshot above, I ordered a plain-coloured (gold) one sold and shipped by Amazon US in October 2018, and Amazon called it Pilot MR Metropolitan. The "Use and Care Guide" leaflet inside the retail package inserted by Pilot clearly said "Pilot MR" and not "Pilot Metropolitan".

 

If the marketing name has changed some time in the past two, three or five years in USA, then retailers ought to be taking notice and changing it on their web sites, product listings and other collateral, not sticking to the discontinued name. I don't see too many US retailers continue to sell Sailor Souten or Yamadori inks under the Jentle or Shikisai name; they're now inks in the Sailor Shikiori range.

 

Anyway, whatever the cause, whoever calls it Pilot Metropolitan today is in error, out-of-date, or both; that's that. You can say, "Oh, that's just a shorthand for the proper name, with or without the user of the name realising what the proper name is," but it doesn't make him/her correct; the individual cannot override Pilot USA in what "it's called" in USA, when he/she represents neither Pilot Corporation nor the USA.

 

It's not even a case of Sailor Profit models being called the Sailor 1911 series outside of Japan by Sailor's regional/overseas representative.

Edited September 10, 2020 by A Smug Dill

[Karmachanic]

Someone at Pilot Corporation of America got a lot of 'splaining to do!

 

 

Edited September 10, 2020 by Karmachanic

[Intensity]

As much as this academic discussion on the naming of Pilot's budget writing offerings is interesting, we should pause on derailing this thread originally intended for discussion and photographs of narrow stub/CI writing.

 

I've been meaning to add some sample writing made with my Lamy 2000 EF that's been ground to cursive italic by Penrealm. It's a lovely nib. I also have 2 Pilot VP fines on the way to becoming cursive italics.

Edited September 10, 2020 by Intensity

[Karmachanic]

 

I've been meaning to add some sample writing made with my Lamy 2000 EF that's been ground to cursive italic by Penrealm. It's a lovely nib.

 

Yes please!

[Intensity]

Here's my Lamy 2000 EF -> Cursive italic. My digital calipers measure about 0.4mm/0.2mm line variation. Lines are a bit jagged, as I'm writing with the dregs of that Diamine ink. Trying to decide what to fill that pen with after I flush it. Can't be any wet ink, or line variation gets lost to varying degree. Thankfully I have lots of dry inks nowadays. Diamine inks are usually great for line variation, GvFC, Montblanc. Sailor Jentle or wetter, like Pilot Iroshizuku, are too free flowing.

 

 

Maruman Puo 3mm graph paper

 

Edit: here's the new ink in the same pen -- Papier Plume Pecan An old favorite. PP inks are quite dry.

 

(Cream Tomoe River 52g with 3.7mm grid)

Edited September 11, 2020 by Intensity

[SchaumburgSwan]

Here's my Lamy 2000 EF -> Cursive italic. My digital calipers measure about 0.4mm/0.2mm line variation. Lines are a bit jagged, as I'm writing with the dregs of that Diamine ink. Trying to decide what to fill that pen with after I flush it. Can't be any wet ink, or line variation gets lost to varying degree. Thankfully I have lots of dry inks nowadays. Diamine inks are usually great for line variation, GvFC, Montblanc. Sailor Jentle or wetter, like Pilot Iroshizuku, are too free flowing.

 

 

Maruman Puo 3mm graph paper

 

Edit: here's the new ink in the same pen -- Papier Plume Pecan An old favorite. PP inks are quite dry.

 

(Cream Tomoe River 52g with 3.7mm grid)

Hi,

 

... looks very nice, thank you for the samples. :-)

If it once hadn't been my fathers pen, I would let my OM Lamy 2000 get regrind to something like that.

 

Best wishes

Jens

[Purplecate]

Well, I got the custom grinds I was looking for and these are now some of my favourite nibs to write with. Here is some sample handwriting using first a nib grind from fpnibs.com and second one from the nibsmith.com. I used Diamine inks in both - though these show the extremes somewhat as the brown (Triple Chocolate) is a little dry in that pen and the purple blue (Bilberry) is a little wet. (Sorry, can't get this is attach in portrait orientation and apologies for poor quality).

 

 

 

[tinta]

Well, I got the custom grinds I was looking for and these are now some of my favourite nibs to write with. Here is some sample handwriting using first a nib grind from fpnibs.com and second one from the nibsmith.com. I used Diamine inks in both - though these show the extremes somewhat as the brown (Triple Chocolate) is a little dry in that pen and the purple blue (Bilberry) is a little wet. (Sorry, can't get this is attach in portrait orientation and apologies for poor quality).

 

IMG_1125.JPG

 

 

Beautiful hand writing.

[Purplecate]

Thanks Tinta, the fine stub/cursive italic nibs really help.

[Intensity]

On Kokuyo 5mm grid A5 paper -- not really good for fountain pen inks, hence the jagged lines. I'm trying to use it up as scrap paper.

 

 

(Inks top to bottom are

Diamine Graphite

Monteverde Iced Cookie

Papier Plume Pecan

Sailor nano Kiwa-Guro

GvFC Stone Grey)

Edited October 31, 2020 by Intensity

[JulieParadise]

I stubbed all my F and M nibs, because this mid-range was a bit boring, esp. with many Sailor LE pens only coming with HMF nibs.

 

Even a #5 Pilot FA can be stubbed, although that one was very finicky and I'd rather not have to do that again.

[TheDutchGuy]

The pen that got me hooked on mini-stubs is a fully original ‘50s MB342 F, which I acquired NOS a few years ago. It has a very soft mini-stub nib. The next one was a regrind I did of an old Parker 51 M, which wrote more like a rather boring kind of B. Now, it has tons of character and is also a great reverse writer. Next came two regrinds done by Anabelle Hiller: a Lamy Dialog3 F (turned into a lovely smooth mini-stub) and an M800 F (turned into a crisp italic). These four pens suffice to scratch my mini-stub itch.