Will Ink Fade In A Closed Notebook Stored Under Proper Conditions?

[scannon18]

I've searched this question on google (and here) and nowhere can I find a satisfactory answer, though it has been asked before. Torture tests are great, but I don't typically dump bleach on my inked pages and leave them to dry in the sun for nine months.

 

Do I really need a pigmented ink or bulletproof ink? There are only two Noodler's inks that I enjoy from a color point of view and I'd hate to be so limited. I'm sure Noodler's has a great product and I am not at all trying to bash them, but is Noodler's bulletproof/eternal series a solution in search of a problem?

 

Will my acid free journals really one day be blank pages again?

 

I use Diamine Denim and Waterman's Blue Black. They are wonderful colors and great inks for a thousand reasons, I'd hate to think they won't stand up to the test of time.

[welch]

Not likely to fade. I have essays I wrote in junior high school, 1962, using Sheaffer Washable Black. Perfectly readable. Stuck in a folder in a file-cabinet. In the late '50s and early '60s, we were more interested in having an ink that would clean off our hands and clothes than in what would now be called "bulletproof".

 

I still have a page in bright blue from 1953; it told my parents where and when to take me to kindergarten: a dittoed page, and dittoes used the lowest quality copy paper then available.

 

Yes, I have also used that phrase: "a solution in search of a problem".

[scannon18]

Perfect, in that case I case I'll just go back to not caring about these sorts of things. Thanks, welch

[Jerome Tarshis]

Not at all a solution in search of a problem. The problem didn't exist in 1962 as it does now.

 

The paper in many, many of today's notebooks is going to help cause the ink to fade. I wouldn't say this is true of acid-free paper, because I don't use acid-free paper. With what I do use, ordinary loose-leaf paper and ordinary college (or high school) spiral-bound notebooks, I have had some really awful fading with such inks as Parker Quink Blue and Waterman's (washable, under whatever adjectives) blue. Blacks seem to resist fading better than blues.

 

I, too, have old notes that didn't fade. I also have newer notes that did. How much bulletproof inks help I have no idea; I'm still writing with Aurora black and Pelikan black and Waterman black. I've almost entirely given up on blues.

 

Others, who use inks and papers I don't use, may know better than I do what to expect in recent decades. What people wrote in the 1950s is irrelevant to this question, as is the durability of old inks, which aren't the same inks as one buys today, even if sold under the same names.

[Vgimlet]

I can say I have fountain pen ink (probably Sheaffer for the most part) in many very cheap notebooks from 1977-83 and they seem to be just fine. The red might look like brown, but I think that's about it.

 

So, I'm hoping we're safe, with a little hint of concern, but not enough to change over to acid-free paper and archival inks for my journals.

[SockAddict]

Remember, there are reasons for the waterproof, bulletproof inks. Average use isn't one of those reasons. It's for things like addressing letters and not having the address smear in the rain, and writing checks that a forger can't just wash the amount off of.

[scannon18]

Remember, there are reasons for the waterproof, bulletproof inks. Average use isn't one of those reasons. It's for things like addressing letters and not having the address smear in the rain, and writing checks that a forger can't just wash the amount off of.

 

I guess that is an important consideration. With the proliferation of acid-free paper in recent years I've no problem sticking to those and hoping regular use will maintain the ink to a legible degree in the decades to come.

[Arkanabar]

It's going to depend on the ink, and probably the paper.

There are things I've written with Sheaffer Skrip Washable Blue (American) that faded to near illegibility in my cheap and nasty notebooks only a few years later. Others have reported the same with Skrip Peacock Blue. I've had Waterman Havana Brown fade to a murky dark teal.

 

Odds are, any ink with decent sun resistance will not fade any time soon. Iron gall inks certainly will not.

[Monophoto]

I have a journal that was written in the mid-1800's. I don't know what color the ink was originally, but today it appears to be a warm black or dark brown. It is still very sharp and distinct - and some of the most beautiful handwriting I've ever seen.

 

So I don't think there is an issue with any reasonably good ink fading if it is in a closed notebook. Obviously, continuous exposure to UV light could produce a totally different result, but that's not a realistic scenario.

 

However, there is a related question that photographers have been arguing about for years. In photography, the issue of archival life is a concern, but the question I've often asked is how long does it HAVE to last? Will your great-grandchildren really care?

Edited November 29, 2014 by Monophoto

[Paddler]

I wrote a journal in the 1950s with Skrip Washable Blue. The journal has been protected from excessive heat, light, and water all these years and the ink has faded to near invisibility. Of course, today's Skrip Washable Blue is probably not made from the same ingredients and may last forever, but why take a chance? Do you want to wait 60 years to find out? I know iron gall will last for hundreds of years and India ink (carbon and gum) will last for thousands. I figure, if these long-lasting inks are available, why not use them? They don't cost more.

 

The "torture tests" you see described are merely an attempt at accelerated aging used to get some idea of an ink's longevity. I do torture testing of inks, but I don't store my journals out in the yard in the sun and rain. If I am going to do all the work recording the shavings off my mind, I want them to last a while.

[WaskiSquirrel]

I use what I like. Posterity can take care of itself. I happen to like a lot of Noodler's colors, but they're not all bulletproof.

 

The biggest benefit of a bulletproof ink for me is that my writings are not well cared for. The notebooks travel with me, get knocked around, and get wet sometimes. When I'm done with a project it gets stored in a cardboard box in the basement. This house doesn't have a problem, but I have had water issues in previous houses.

 

Of course, I also shred old notebooks and let the paper provide a carbon for the grass clippings my neighbor keeps bringing me. The only old notebooks I keep are the ones for my novel writing.

[Sandy1]

Hi,

 

Please be aware some Members reported instances of fading with the Waterman Mysterious Blue (née Blue-Black), so personally I'd choose a different ink of a similar hue and performance profile.* As there was/is speculation that Parker Quink BlBk is very similar to Waterman BlBk, and is made by the same parent Co., such caution might extend to that ink as well.

 

As Washable inks are inherently unstable, I would steer clear of those such as Lamy Blue, Waterman Serenity, Pelikan 4001 Royal Blue, etc. That's not to say that they might not last a long time when they're on suitable paper stored under good conditions - they're just more sensitive to poor paper and/or poor storage conditions.

 

As for the matter of paper, the USA Library of Congress published 'The Deterioration and Preservation of Paper: Some Essential Facts', which amongst other things, answers the question "Why is 500-year old paper often in better condition than paper from 50 years ago?" http://www.loc.gov/preservation/care/deterioratebrochure.html

 

Bye,

S1

 

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* Post № 4 https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/219611-waterman-mysterious-blue/?p=2319868

[highlander1307]

I have notes going back 40 years, no fade. I have lodge records back to 1824, no fade, but ink has browned. Biggest issue is acid free paper. Keep out of direct sunlight and ink should be fine.

[scannon18]

Hi,

 

Please be aware some Members reported instances of fading with the Waterman Mysterious Blue (née Blue-Black), so personally I'd choose a different ink of a similar hue and performance profile.* As there was/is speculation that Parker Quink BlBk is very similar to Waterman BlBk, and is made by the same parent Co., such caution might extend to that ink as well.

 

 

__ __

* Post № 4 https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/219611-waterman-mysterious-blue/?p=2319868

 

I think when a lot of people report fading of Waterman's Blue Black they are referring to the color change upon drying from dark blue black to something with a teal element to it. To me, this isn't fading, this is just part of the ink and what it looks like when it is fully dry.

 

Thank you for the link I will have to give that a read.

 

For other people commenting about ink from the last few centuries being perfectly legible today, I believe that is because iron-gall formulations were much more popular pre 1950 and these inks are typically pretty good for archiving, but they are not the inks that I have in my pens today.

[amberleadavis]

Some inks will fade inside closed notebooks.

 

Check out this thread with feedback from FPNers.

[Runnin_Ute]

Some inks will fade inside closed notebooks.

 

Check out this thread with feedback from FPNers.

I have a posting in that thread I would have made in this one. (#11)

 

I don't know what the ink was the grandpa used when he placed his signature in those books. The books were printed in 1923. They have remained closed and not seeing UV light for most of their lives. And yes, he may have used an iron gall ink. (no way to know - he died in 1959)

[knarflj]

 

I think when a lot of people report fading of Waterman's Blue Black they are referring to the color change upon drying from dark blue black to something with a teal element to it. To me, this isn't fading, this is just part of the ink and what it looks like when it is fully dry.

 

No. Well, yes, of course the colour changes when it dries. But it also fades: I have notes from a dozen years ago that are already getting hard to read. I'm glad I noticed this thread, because if I want to be able to refer to them ten years from now, I'll need to recopy them soon!

[welch]

Pulled three books out of the bookcase. Two Modern Library Faulkners: (1) "Sound and Fury" bound with "As I Lay Dying", my signature, 1965, in good old Sheaffer Washable Black (#62 in the two-ounce bottles); (2) "Light in August", same year, same signature, same ink; (3) another Modern Library, Malthus, "On Population", same signature, 1967, same ink. Title page stamped by my college bookstore, "Jan 3 1967", plus the reading assignments: "pp 147 - 187, 275 - 278, 575 - 594". Crisp. No fading.

 

If anyone wants a long-lasting ink (assuming decent paper and proper care), EBay has a bottle of Sheaffer Washable Black for about $5.

[scannon18]

 

No. Well, yes, of course the colour changes when it dries. But it also fades: I have notes from a dozen years ago that are already getting hard to read. I'm glad I noticed this thread, because if I want to be able to refer to them ten years from now, I'll need to recopy them soon!

 

 

That is actually really disappointing to here, I love this ink. Do you know if the paper you wrote them on might have something to do with the fading?

[amberleadavis]

When I tested the papers in light to see about fading, the modern papers have no noticeable difference in how fast the ink fades. However, some dye categories are really unstable.