Modern Parker & The 51

[krooj]

Curious,

 

If the 51 is such a freaking good pen, why doesn't Parker make them anymore? Really, it doesn't look like an expensive pen to make - I'd imagine a re-release costing somewhere between $45 and $75 retail. Has anyone had direct contact with the company to ask this very question? If so, what was the answer?

[OldGriz]

This has been discussed to death in the not to far past...

If you do a search you should be able to find the thread...

 

[RonB]

Tom is correct. The short answer is that it would be very expensive to make today, much more than one would think.

 

 

[Lloyd]

Buy a Hero 100.

[Djehuty]

Because I'm curious as well, I searched the forums, and I can't find the thread in question. I even tried a search simply for "Parker 51," and after reading twenty pages of thread titles and checking every one which seemed as if it might contain some relevant information, my eyes are tired, and I give up.

 

Perhaps someone who participated in or read the discussion could provide a hint, maybe a search term which would be more likely to find the thread?

 

I don't want to resurrect old discussions which have been done to death, but I'm sufficiently intrigued that I'd like to be able to find the old discussion to see how it went.

 

[RonB]

Here is one:

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/in...showtopic=22602

[Djehuty]

Ah, thanks.

 

I'd seen that, but thought I must be missing something.

 

[meanwhile]

QUOTE (Djehuty @ Mar 18 2007, 08:19 PM)

Ah, thanks. I'd seen that, but thought I must be missing something.

It's not a very good thread. There are better ones.

 

The 51 was a labour intensive design and a non-standard one that would require much reg-jigging of a production line to produce. The design was partly motivated by the needs of a special type of ink which Parker quickly gave up on. People praise the 51 for its "reliability" but how much more reliable it really is (and by what standard) a Sheaffer Targa or a Lamy 2000K is another question.

 

From Parkers POV it makes more sense to sell pens that look like the 51 like the 51SE and the Parker 100. After all, they don't even sell a non-CC fountain pen today.

Edited March 21, 2007 by meanwhile

[psfred]

I don't believe it would be all that expensive to actually manufacture (after all, there are only a few extra steps, mostly machining the slots in the collector, which would be molded now anyway), but to set up to start making pens would never pay off.

 

As far as reliability goes, most of them still have the original sac in them -- usually pretty opaque by now, but not leaking. Ditto for the Parker 21 --cracked hoods, but the sac is fine and about half the time you can still see the ink level in it. The nibs wear, but remember, this is over 50 or 60 years. Vacumatic diaphrams last just as long (or short) a time a rubber ink sacs or converters.

 

However, you CAN still buy new "51"s -- Mr. Kullock (sp!) in Argentina makes all sort of fun ones on Parker equipment. Hardly inexpensive, though....

 

They are among the very best fountain pens every produced. My only quibble would be that Parker needed to buy their tipping material from Sheaffer! Everything else is a near to perfect as one can get, I think (although I do like the Snorkel filling system better, except for low capacity).

 

I think we are stuck with the "standard" open nib design unless FP become enough more popular that someone can sell a couple million in a "51" like design. Hero (and Wing Sung) are using Parker designs, and likely Parker equipment, so they don't have starup costs. And, a Hero 100 (sort of a cross between a "51" and a 61) and the 616, 329, 330, etc pens are really nice pens -- what we could have is someone hadn't stopped making "51"s.

 

If you are looking for less expensive alternatives (although a "real" "51" isn't that expensive if you look around a bit), take a look at a Parker 21 Super -- very similar design with a SS nib and slightly smaller ink capacity.

 

Peter

[JimStrutton]

Probably the nearest new Parker to the "51" would be the 100, not really a "51" but it does have a lot of similarities.

 

The greatest pity is that Hero don't make a choice of nibs for their 100, again probably down to the dreaded Market Forces. If you look at the "51"s that come up for sale most have a F XF or M nib, anything else is a premium.

 

Good thing is that despite Old Griz's best efforts, there are still tons of "51"s to be had in the wild and elsewhere. You will find the one you want with patience.

 

Jim

[FrankB]

krooj, I hope you have better luck looking up the previous threads. I always find it interesting to read about and to discuss Parker 51's.

 

I have also understood that it would be too expensive to manufacture, or remanufacture, P-51's to the standards of excellence of the originals. That idea is disappointing to me since it causes me to wonder what the current production standards are.

 

I doubt the P-51 will become so popular as to warrant its remanufacture, but I can always hope. The 51 is dead on reliable, yet the hooded nib allows no room for nib flex. To me they are more reliable and far more fun than a ball point or roller, but they are different from open nib pens. I use a variety of pens, and P-51's are among my best writing pens. I think I have two dozen right now, but I didnt take time to count them before commenting on this thread.

[meanwhile]

QUOTE (JimStrutton @ Mar 21 2007, 08:26 AM)

Probably the nearest new Parker to the "51" would be the 100, not really a "51" but it does have a lot of similarities. The greatest pity is that Hero don't make a choice of nibs for their 100, again probably down to the dreaded Market Forces.

In past discussions the conclusion was that a Hero 100 *is* a member of the P51 family, although parts aren't swappable. It uses true 51 nib, collector, aero filler, and cap retainer designs. I thought the pen was XF only because that's what works for Chinese characters. Anyone who wanted to could have the pen re-tipped by a meister to get a medium or a broad - it would still be much cheaper than buying a Sonnet or a 51 SE.

[TYoung]

I've always wondered why Parker didn't make the Sonnet with a hooded nib? I think C/C fillers have to be part of pens today to make them marketable, unfortunately.

[Bayes]

I also searched for the old threads, but couldn't find them.

[randyholhut]

Perhaps the biggest reason Parker won't reissue a modern version of the "51" is that there are simply too many of the old ones around and most of them still work.

 

The words "planned obsolescense" never were in Parker's vocabulary. They built pens to last, and that's why there are millions of "51s" still extant in the world. Sturdy materials plus fine craftsmanship equal pens that work as well today as they did 50 or 60 years ago.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jkrewalk]

Please forgive my ignorance good people as I am not a big 51 enthusiast.

 

I do own one and I like it but it takes too much work for me to properly align the nib on paper because I can't see the tiny tip without reading glasses and its too much trouble to put them on everytime i want to write something. I find myself having to first line up the clip with the nib so when i do write I use that as a guide. I find this to be a hassle.

 

For this reason, I prefer a large open nib that is easy for me to see that it is "squared on" for proper flow when writing. I also love the pretty engraved lines and two tone coloring of a fancy open nib where the 51 to me seems more like a ballpoint (which it strongly resembles).

 

So, the one I have pretty much stays in my pen chest just so that I can tell myself I have one and as a representative piece of pen history.

 

The above comments notwithstanding, I realize that there are thousands of people who love their 51 and I do indeed respect that and I hopefully have not offended anyone - my comments are just my opinion and we are all different and like different things (fortunately for sure!).

 

But now to my point - And again - please excuse my ignorance but I am curious: Why is not the modern Parker 100 a remake of the 51 that this thread is all about? To me it seems identical. I apologize that I do not see the difference - is it because of the filling system? My Parker 51 has the old rubber squeeze type filler in it - I believe that is called the Aerometric maybe? Anyway I fail to see any big difference between that and a modern day converter as far as ink capacity, performance, etc.

 

Now I would understand if we were comparing a piston fill to a converter- but - I am probably missing something I guess. Other than the filling system, the 100 has exactly the same fully hooded nib, etc. - or am I wrong??

 

I obviously must be wrong but am here to learn more - so can someone enlighten me? Appreciate your patience with a 51 "newbie" like myself!

 

 

 

[psfred]

The "guts" of the Parker 100 are a standard open nib and feed like most other fountain pens. The only similarity to the "51" is the partial hood over the nib.

 

The "51" has a very small tubular nib with a very small feed, and both fit into a large plastic "collector" or secondary ink supply under the hood. This design was intended for Superchrome and "51" inks sold by Parker that contained a large amount of isopropyl alcohol to make them very fast drying -- to prevent nibs drying out, the "51" had a huge supply of ink right at the nib and a hood over it so that the ink could only dry on the paper. Worked fine with Superchrome and just as well with modern inks. The Superchrome and "51" inks were, well, horrible -- they worked fine to write with, but being metallic dyes in alkaline solution (pH 12 or better) ate SS nibs, precipitated hard, flaky stuff that will not redissolve, and chewed up the silver breather tubes in the Aerometric "51"s. Parker re-formulated the original "51" ink into Superchrome in the late 40s, and dropped it all together in 1956 or 1957.

 

If you take a look under magnification of an inked "51", you will see ink hanging between the hood and the nib, and between the feed and the nib, flowing down the slot in the nib to the tip, a distance of only 1/8" or less. Endless volume available. Compare that to a standard nib, with ink only on one side, and that sometimes twice the distance away, with the top open to the air and hence to loss of water from the ink. A "51" can lie on its side for months and start writing the instant the nib touches the paper, and even stored nib up, it will write within seconds as there is a very large path for ink to the nib.

 

Nearly all of them floating around in Aerometric fill version have their original sac (PVC, I think) -- usually black from ink stain, but intact. Ditto for Parker 21 and 41 pens as well, they seem to last forever.

 

This makes them nice, wet, reliable fountain pens. The hood over the nib is an annoyance, but I've gotten used to it. I have the same problem you do. The 61, Parkers next top end pen, had an arrow on the top to help you locate the nib, as do most Hero copies and developements of the "51".

 

The finned collector sitting around the feed to provide plenty of ink without clogging survived in the Parker 45 up until last year, but all new designs since the 70's don't appear to use it. The current "trend" in FP, now that they are hardly mainstream anymore, is toward large, showy nibs with two color plating and lots of engraved design, and the "51" is, well, very utilitarian.

 

Very popular pens when in production, and one of the longest production run mass market pens ever (Montblancs have been around longer in some models, I think, but they are hardly mass market -- nothing has been since the 1960s!). I like mine very much.

 

Peter

[jkrewalk]

Peter - Thank you so much for that clarification - excellent summary and now I understand completely the major difference between 51 and 100.

 

Although I did know (from reading about the 51 on the web) that it was superior in design regarding ink flow - specifically because of the feed design - what I did not know is that the new 100 did not use that same feed!

 

I did not know the 100 was just a regular nib disguised as the original!

 

And - don't get me wrong - I totally respect the deisgn of the pen from an ink delivery system standpoint. I remember the first time I tried to clean mine - it seemed like an endless supply of ink was there even though the sac was empty! And it does always start up and write flawlessly.

 

Thanks again for your expert summary of the 51 design - I now know a lot more about it and agree it is an impressive piece of fountain pen design history. Actually all this talk about it has made me want to go grab mine, ink it up and put it into my current rotation. Yes - that is exactly what I will do and am on my way to the pen chest now!

Edited March 21, 2007 by jkrewalk

[MYU]

QUOTE (psfred @ Mar 20 2007, 10:22 PM)

However, you CAN still buy new "51"s -- Mr. Kullock (sp!) in Argentina makes all sort of fun ones on Parker equipment. Hardly inexpensive, though....

Hey Peter -- that's interesting to know. I somehow got the impression that Mr. Kullock was making these pens from left over parts he got from the defunct Parker plant based in Argentina, and that most of those pens were from a cache of experiments that local pen-smiths were making in the 60's.

 

I wonder to what extent he can fabric parts and what he has to cannibalize from old Parker 51's?

 

~Gary

[andyk]

QUOTE (randyholhut @ Mar 21 2007, 04:15 PM)

Perhaps the biggest reason Parker won't reissue a modern version of the "51" is that there are simply too many of the old ones around and most of them still work. The words "planned obsolescense" never were in Parker's vocabulary. They built pens to last, and that's why there are millions of "51s" still extant in the world. Sturdy materials plus fine craftsmanship equal pens that work as well today as they did 50 or 60 years ago.

I agree with Randy, millions made a huge number of those still around and most still work so what would be the point of producing a new version which would be quite expensive to buy.

 

I have 7 or 8 P51s the only that doesn't work is one of my 2 vacumatic fillers and personally I don't think I would pay £100-200 for a moden version when these are just fine.

 

I did eventually by one of the 51SE from couple of years back, but only because I found it cheaply on Ebay from memory about £65.00. If I had been in the market to spend the original £250 retail price I probably would have bought a couple or several other pens.

 

Not convinced that the modern version has the same magic as the originals, a nice pen, but not a £250 pen.

Edited March 21, 2007 by andyk