14K Nibs--Are They Solid?

[sirgilbert357]

So in a conversation about nibs with an EBay seller, he said vintage nibs marked 14k aren't really solid gold, they are just gold filled or rolled gold (both a form of layering gold over another metal, thus not gold through-and-through). I guess I'm still a Noob because I found that to be a surprise. I mean, if a pen is being sold with a nib and the description is "Nib Material: Gold", then, Uh...it should be *gold* right?

 

I'm pretty close to buying a Sailor that is described as having a "gold" nib, so what's the verdict? Are the vintage nibs different than modern day? Is the modern Sailor equipped with a solid gold nib? Are both gold filled or rolled gold instead of solid? Or am I stumbling upon a "Well duh dude!!" fact that I've just had the wrong expectations of? Or is this seller just flat out misinformed?

[jar]

The seller is just ignorant. Nibs marked as something like 14K RG or 14k GF are not all gold but those marked just 14k are solid gold. In fact many gold nibs were not even marked as such.

[Icywolfe]

Watch out for nibs that say plated right under the grip

[LamyOne]

Hello SirGilbert,

 

It could be the seller is confused and mixing up the facts a little bit. A nib stamped 14k is "solid gold," but it is not pure solid gold; it is a gold alloy, i.e., gold that is mixed with other metals to give it strength, (the lower the karat weight, the less actual gold is present). Even 21k gold isn't pure gold, but an alloy mix. This may be where the seller is a bit confused and is erring on the side of caution so as not to de-fraud anyone. Fortunately, you are an FPN member and have access to all of this key data.

 

Best regards,

 

Chris

Edited November 14, 2014 by LamyOne

[jar]

Hello SirGilbert,

 

Even 21k and 24k gold isn't pure gold, but alloy mixes.

Best regards,

 

Chris

 

 

Not quite. In the case of 24k it is 24/24ths pure gold or 100% pure gold. No alloys there.

[LamyOne]

 

In the case of 24k it is 24/24ths pure gold or 100% pure gold. No alloys there.

 

Thank you Jar, for that pearl of knowledge. I've edited my post accordingly.

 

- Chris

Edited November 14, 2014 by LamyOne

[sirgilbert357]

Hello SirGilbert,

 

I think the seller may be a little confused and mixing up the facts. A nib stamped 14k is "solid gold," but it is not pure solid gold; it is a gold alloy, i.e., gold that is mixed with other metals to give it strength. Even 21 and 24k gold isn't pure gold, but alloy mixes. This may be where the seller is a bit confused and is erring on the side of caution so as not to de-fraud anyone. Fortunately, you are an FPN member and have access to all of this key data.

 

Best regards,

 

Chris

 

Yeah, I agree, he must be confused. There's a pretty good pic of the nib and it clearly states "14k". No "Plated" or anything... So based on what you guys are saying I'm sure its solid (well, solid, not "pure"; I'm aware of the alloys that are used to stiffen the gold). So I guess the pen would be a great buy, but I've got my sites set elsewhere. This is a good education that applies to any gold nibbed pens though...

[cpmcnamara]

Yes - what other people said regarding alloys. Also note that 14K is a very good gold content. 14K - 21K is the typical gold range, and it's easily arguable that 14K is the best content. Sailor specialty nibs may be the only nibs that need 21K nibs - the softer gold content promotes malleability. Outside of that, on a standard nib, 14K is good if not best.

[rwilsonedn]

Confusion is understandable. In addition to what other posters have said about alloys, 14K vs. 24 K, etc., vendors play labelling games. There was a time in the early 20th century when some third-tier companies (none whose names you would recognize now) got away with mislabelling nibs as "Gold" or 14K when they were not. Fairly soon people stopped that. But then they would mark a nib 14K GP or Gold .... Plated, and somehow the P was stamped too lightly, or the Plated ended up inside the section where you couldn't see it. Mostly that has stopped too.

Today, if a major company says a nib is 14K, then it is solid 14K gold: that is, it is solid gold alloy with a gold content somewhere around 60%. Chinese manufacturers still sell nibs marked 14K GP, by which they mean a steel nib with a wash of 14K gold so thin you can almost wipe it off with a handkerchief. But they do say GP, not just G. Once in a long while an eBay seller will not notice the P, and will advertise a Jinhao or such with a 14K nib. But this is getting rarer too.

ron

[sirgilbert357]

Glad I asked. I feel better about the price of the Sailor I want since it has a real gold nib, LOL.

[KBeezie]

Glad I asked. I feel better about the price of the Sailor I want since it has a real gold nib, LOL.

Other than the 'bling' factor (14K is pretty common especially with vintage pens, can easily get a vintage 14K gold nibbed pen for 10-20$ or less, if all you care about is it having some gold), the main reason for going gold is that they do not stain or corrode (14K can still stain a pretty good deal, but it can be easily cleaned with an ultrasonic bath without damaging the alloy), a lot of pens had gold nibs in the past because ink was a bit harsher such as iron gall or had an acidic content to it, older steel nibs would pit and corrode easily (now days modern stainless steel when made well does last very well).

 

Keep in mind however, gold does not = Soft/Flex/Spring. Depending on the alloy mixture a gold nib can be hard as a nail or very soft and flexy, as well as how it's made and shaped. Likewise a steel nib can be flexible or hard as a nail. Just matter of content. I have both a flexible 18K gold nib as well as a rigid posting 18K nib, same with 14K. But 18K can be easier to damaged or misalign when you're adjusting or working with it. Writing wise, I don't think you're going to get much difference between 14K, 18K, 21K if they're made to do the same thing (ie: the Sailor 1911 nibs for example). Likewise a steel nib can be just as smooth and nice to write with as a 14K nib when they're both made to be of the same firmness.

 

Nutshell : Don't worry too much about it, and don't expect too much just because it's "gold".

 

PS: What was the price of the Sailor and which model? They vary in price depending if it's 14K or 21K, etc. But it can also vary on the model. ie: Not much sense paying for a Platinum PTL-5000 with a 14K nib, at the price of a Sailor 1911L with a 21K nib, just because some seller got ad-happy over the fact it's gold.

Edited November 14, 2014 by KBeezie

[Runnin_Ute]

I have a Waterman Phileas w/2 tone nib. It says "Waterman Paris" on the nib. That and the price of these when new (~$50) would indicate steel with gold plating.

 

On the other hand my Parker 45 Flighter was represented as having

a gp nib. Paid appropriate price on ebay and it had a 14k nib when I checked it upon arrival. I suspected it might be as the color didn't look right for a gp nib.

 

Closest thing to a sumgai buy I have ever made.

[Bo Bo Olson]

14C/K =585 gold, rest alloy.

18 C/K = 750 gold, rest alloy.

14 C/18C is what older German nibs use ...some are reputed to be more flexible than 14 K....different alloy.....or carrot vs Karrot.

 

I have vintage steel nibs that are just as good as vintage 14 C nibs.

[KBeezie]

14C/K =585 gold, rest alloy.

18 C/K = 750 gold, rest alloy.

14 C/18C is what older German nibs use ...some are reputed to be more flexible than 14 K....different alloy.....or carrot vs Karrot.

 

I have vintage steel nibs that are just as good as vintage 14 C nibs.

For someone who may have trouble with the #s. 585 = 58.5 gold, 750 = 75.0% gold. Some nibs won't even say ##K/C, but just the gold content, like my Montblanc 225 simply says "585" at the base of the nib, no 14K or 14C etc.

[sirgilbert357]

Other than the 'bling' factor (14K is pretty common especially with vintage pens, can easily get a vintage 14K gold nibbed pen for 10-20$ or less, if all you care about is it having some gold), the main reason for going gold is that they do not stain or corrode (14K can still stain a pretty good deal, but it can be easily cleaned with an ultrasonic bath without damaging the alloy), a lot of pens had gold nibs in the past because ink was a bit harsher such as iron gall or had an acidic content to it, older steel nibs would pit and corrode easily (now days modern stainless steel when made well does last very well).

 

Keep in mind however, gold does not = Soft/Flex/Spring. Depending on the alloy mixture a gold nib can be hard as a nail or very soft and flexy, as well as how it's made and shaped. Likewise a steel nib can be flexible or hard as a nail. Just matter of content. I have both a flexible 18K gold nib as well as a rigid posting 18K nib, same with 14K. But 18K can be easier to damaged or misalign when you're adjusting or working with it. Writing wise, I don't think you're going to get much difference between 14K, 18K, 21K if they're made to do the same thing (ie: the Sailor 1911 nibs for example). Likewise a steel nib can be just as smooth and nice to write with as a 14K nib when they're both made to be of the same firmness.

 

Nutshell : Don't worry too much about it, and don't expect too much just because it's "gold".

 

PS: What was the price of the Sailor and which model? They vary in price depending if it's 14K or 21K, etc. But it can also vary on the model. ie: Not much sense paying for a Platinum PTL-5000 with a 14K nib, at the price of a Sailor 1911L with a 21K nib, just because some seller got ad-happy over the fact it's gold.

Ah, I never thought about inks in the past eating up the stainless steel, so that's pretty interesting.

 

The price of the Sailor Sapporo (aka Pro Gear Slim) is 156.00 from the place I'm looking to buy it from. They had a 15% off coupon awhile back, but I didn't pull the trigger as I hadn't fully decided if I was getting the Sailor for sure.

Another member here kindly informed me of where I could find it for 98 bucks from Japan (with free shipping starting at 99 dollars--so I'd buy some cartridges or something I guess), so I'm considering my options. I'd rather get it from within the USA so returns or warranty service is less of a hassle, and I'm hoping another 15% off coupon surfaces before Christmas...but the USA vendor only has the rhodium trimmed version and I'm leaning towards going all out and getting the blinged out gold trim. Still undecided on that.

[Chrissy]

I prefer the writing experience I get with gold nibs over steel nibs.

 

I now have 2 Waterman Phileas pens that have gold L'Etalon nibs in them and I like writing with them much more than I did when they had steel nibs. However, the best thing about gold nibs is that they don't corrode like steel ones do.

[sirgilbert357]

I prefer the writing experience I get with gold nibs over steel nibs.

 

I now have 2 Waterman Phileas pens that have gold L'Etalon nibs in them and I like writing with them much more than I did when they had steel nibs. However, the best thing about gold nibs is that they don't corrode like steel ones do.

How would you describe the difference of the the writing experience? In my head, I imagine it to be less toothy or just a smoother "glide" across the paper, but I guess that largely depends on the nib...

[aardvarkbark]

....and it's easily arguable that 14K is the best content....on a standard nib, 14K is good if not best.

 

What on earth is the basis for this pronouncement? My standard Sailors, all 21k, and Omases, all 18k, are wonderful.

[KBeezie]

How would you describe the difference of the the writing experience? In my head, I imagine it to be less toothy or just a smoother "glide" across the paper, but I guess that largely depends on the nib...

 

Though Steel or Gold, the smoothness isn't based on the material since both are likely to be writing on the hard tipping on the front (which won't be gold). There might be a certain spring to it, but I think for a lot of people it's just a placebo effect. If both were made with the same level of quality and precision, you probably wouldn't notice if they were of the same color and labeled the same. (kind of apples and oranges to compare one to the other if they aren't made to the same standard).

 

 

 

What on earth is the basis for this pronouncement? My standard Sailors, all 21k, and Omases, all 18k, are wonderful.

I'm wondering as well, maybe 'best' if you think of many people being too heavy handed with their writing which can more easily spring an 18K or 21K nib (even if they are made firm), but personal preference usually makes it impossible to have a "best". In fact gold isn't even necessary for the reason most people state (ie: it won't be smoother, just because it's gold).

Edited November 15, 2014 by KBeezie