Beautiful Nakaya Arrived, Urushi Dot?

[tinta]

The trouble is,... now you know where to look.

I've been through this dilemma with an American made look-alike. Your Nakaya is hand lathed & finished, not a mass produced item. This imperfection may be part of its charm.

But, what's your Nakata nib like? For me that would be the most important.

Enjoy that lovely pen.

Edited November 12, 2014 by tinta

[KBeezie]

One day I'll have enough spare money to get one and complain about how mine is 'cracked'...

 

 

http://unroyalwarrant.com/2014/05/03/nakaya-naka-ai-negoro-shiro-tamenuri-fountain-pen-review/

 

http://unroyalwarrant.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/dsc00595.jpg?w=575&h=265

 

http://unroyalwarrant.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/dsc00594.jpg?w=575&h=555

 

http://unroyalwarrant.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/dsc00529.jpg?w=575&h=862

 

Sometimes it's the 'uniqueness' that makes it special, and if I understand it correctly, all Tamenuri pens will change color as it ages revealing the brighter color underneath, and will with time likely either go away, or become more apparent. Either way it's going to change and become even more unique.

[ethernautrix]

... The other thing to keep in mind is that some of the guys making these pens are probably old, and they may have had some retire recently; Who knows really. All of this could contribute to a couple of minor flaws making it out of the factory.

If I were the original poster I would just chalk this up to the "wabi sabi" nature of a truly hand made pen like the other guy stated. Thats how I look at.

 

As I understand it, the men who make Nakayas are in their 70's to 80's - retired from Platinum years ago. I also understand that there is no apprenticeship program, so if - when - they are no longer able to make the pens, then the pens won't be made. I'm hoping that others are being trained to make Nakayas. But I don't know.

 

P.S. I bought my first new car about five years ago, and plenty of friends advised me to hurry up and get a ding in it so that I wouldn't worry about dings at all.

Edited November 13, 2014 by ethernautrix

[mirosc]

 

As I understand it, the men who make Nakayas are in their 70's to 80's - retired from Platinum years ago.

As far as I know they are only responsible for the body, the clip, nib and feed assembly.

All urushi work is not done by themselves but outsourced to some other specialists that we don't know.

 

One could declare this imperfection to be a sign of wabi-sabi, but this is quite a deep philosophical and artistic idea that we can hardly find in the tradition of the basic Nakaya pens. So I'm inclined to say that the spot is rather sloppy quality control than part of an aesthetical concept. Just my opinion.

[arran]

I also have the impression that the finishing of nakaya pens is inferior to sailor and namiki pens.

e.g. I had to send back my f nib palmet back to Japan , because the nib alignment was totally unaccepatble.

In the end tey solved it as it should be.

Concerning urushi , I had some inferior finishing with my ishi me kanshitsu midori on which the depth of colour was different at the end of the barrel.

Personally the platinum nakaya nib is my favourite , but concerning internal QC , i think Namiki is a step up.

[daintydimsum]

Something else to consider as well: Namiki does not (as far as I know, and I may well be wrong) do tamenuri pens. Perhaps the more accurate comparison (if one is inclined to go down this route) would be with Nakaya's non-tamenuri urushi pens, ex. ama-iro or kuro-roiro.

 

As for whether it's a defect or wabi-sabi, I honestly don't know. I do know I was surprised that my pens weren't as "perfect" as I thought they'd be, but upon further reflection I couldn't for the life of me understand why "imperfections" were acceptable on my matcha-wans (matcha bowls) and cups but not in pens. I slowly grew to appreciate and love the little imperfections and lack of uniformity of lacquer. There's a kind of beauty in that too. But it's not everyone's cup of tea, of course.

[alarickc]

Something else to consider as well: Namiki does not (as far as I know, and I may well be wrong) do tamenuri pens. Perhaps the more accurate comparison (if one is inclined to go down this route) would be with Nakaya's non-tamenuri urushi pens, ex. ama-iro or kuro-roiro.

 

As for whether it's a defect or wabi-sabi, I honestly don't know. I do know I was surprised that my pens weren't as "perfect" as I thought they'd be, but upon further reflection I couldn't for the life of me understand why "imperfections" were acceptable on my matcha-wans (matcha bowls) and cups but not in pens. I slowly grew to appreciate and love the little imperfections and lack of uniformity of lacquer. There's a kind of beauty in that too. But it's not everyone's cup of tea, of course.

That's a good point. My Long Cigar in Shu is as perfect as could be, I've looked. That was bought in April.

[proton007]

I couldn't for the life of me understand why "imperfections" were acceptable on my matcha-wans (matcha bowls) and cups but not in pens.

 

"Imperfection" is a rather naive description I'd say.

Secondly, making a product "imperfect" because then it abides to a design philosophy is putting the cart before the horse.

[mchenart]

I was lucky to be able to attend the 2010 Maki-e Pen festival held at Itoya, Tokyo. When I walked in the showroom early in the morning, I met Mr. Toshiya Nakata, the president of Platinum/Nakaya and immediately struck up a conversation with him. I mentioned that I was a fan of their pens and really liked the finish on their urushi pens. To that he answered, he had to work hard on the stringent quality control, since he personally rejected a lot of pens with flaws. If I interpret his statement correctly, these were flaws that he himself would consider unacceptable.

Aesthetics could be a very personal thing. To my eyes, I prefer to get handmade items that are as perfectly crafted as possible. But if a person sees the light spot on your pen as wabi sabi and comes to liking it, that is alright too. And if Mr. Nakata were to inspect your pen personally, would it pass his inspection? I think not.

[Mickey]

 

"Imperfection" is a rather naive description I'd say.

Secondly, making a product "imperfect" because then it abides to a design philosophy is putting the cart before the horse.

 

Maybe it's not design philosophy as much as a religious/philosophical/ethical consideration. Nominal imperfection can easily be seen as an acknowledgement of the artist's humanity, place in the universe, his or her own imperfection. Supposedly the ancient Egyptians were capable of creating realistically 3 dimensional paintings, but purposely distorted perspective (imperfect representation) for religious/societal reasons.

 

There is also the "object as performance" aesthetic, where creating the object in the 'correct' manner is a more important consideration than the perfection of the object. Perfection is a goal, but an unobtainable one. (Recently, we've had several vigorous discussions in the penmanship forum regarding 'acceptable' methods.) Ask yourself can authentic jazz be captured in anything other than real time, warts and all? Could the very imperfectability of jazz be one of the reasons it was preserved in Japan while it degenerated in the U.S. (The quality of jazz in the West has suffered in direct relation to its musical respectability.)

 

In works of art (or high craft) QC really belongs to the maker. If the artist or craftsman believes the artifact acceptably 'perfect' it is acceptably perfect. The buyer doesn't really get a vote, other than to refuse the object. That question is acceptability, which belongs to the buyer, not the artisan.

[proton007]

 

Maybe it's not design philosophy as much as a religious/philosophical/ethical consideration. Nominal imperfection can easily be seen as an acknowledgement of the artist's humanity, place in the universe, his or her own imperfection. Supposedly the ancient Egyptians were capable of creating realistically 3 dimensional paintings, but purposely distorted perspective (imperfect representation) for religious/societal reasons.

 

There is also the "object as performance" aesthetic, where creating the object in the 'correct' manner is a more important consideration than the perfection of the object. Perfection is a goal, but an unobtainable one. (Recently, we've had several vigorous discussions in the penmanship forum regarding 'acceptable' methods.) Ask yourself can authentic jazz be captured in anything other than real time, warts and all? Could the very imperfectability of jazz be one of the reasons it was preserved in Japan while it degenerated in the U.S. (The quality of jazz in the West has suffered in direct relation to its musical respectability.)

 

In works of art (or high craft) QC really belongs to the maker. If the artist or craftsman believes the artifact acceptably 'perfect' it is acceptably perfect. The buyer doesn't really get a vote, other than to refuse the object. That question is acceptability, which belongs to the buyer, not the artisan.

 

Maybe you're right. I do believe that the artist gets to say whether the artwork is complete or not.

But then it also makes me wonder why are we so stringent about quality with machine made products. Going by this line of reasoning, it's because machine production dehumanizes the product, and hence the same standards don't apply.

Then there's also the question of having relative measures of perfection. In a different age it wouldn't have been possible to create objects that were consistent.

It's also ironical that the Japanese tend to be the leaders in quality control for industries.

[daintydimsum]

 

Maybe you're right. I do believe that the artist gets to say whether the artwork is complete or not.

But then it also makes me wonder why are we so stringent about quality with machine made products. Going by this line of reasoning, it's because machine production dehumanizes the product, and hence the same standards don't apply.

Then there's also the question of having relative measures of perfection. In a different age it wouldn't have been possible to create objects that were consistent.

It's also ironical that the Japanese tend to be the leaders in quality control for industries.

 

The Japanese belief in wabi sabi comes out especially strongly (in my eyes) in teaware. While gaiwans and yixing/chaozhou teapots tend to look immaculate, Japanese teaware (yunomi, shiboridashi, the various kinds of pots in a number of -- but not all of course -- traditions) tend to be almost deliberately unfinished. I completely understand if it's not your cup of tea, but it doesn't mean it's necessarily putting the horse before the cart. I'm also not saying it is naturally beautiful. Much like philosophy, it may not appear "natural" or instinctual (just as how for example those not from liberal traditions may not see the beauty in it, and those from Confucian traditions may not see the beauty in those).

 

As for the pens, honestly -- who knows? I do think that if people think the QC has gone down, thankfully, no one is holding them hostage and forcing them to buy the pens. There are far more (quantity-wise) beautiful pens than our wallets can handle!

Edited November 14, 2014 by daintydimsum

[mchenart]

 

Maybe it's not design philosophy as much as a religious/philosophical/ethical consideration. Nominal imperfection can easily be seen as an acknowledgement of the artist's humanity, place in the universe, his or her own imperfection.

 

There is definitely truth in that statement, Mickey. Imperfection in craft, jazz music or life itself could be a beautiful thing, when that imperfection happens naturally (unintentionally) and does not interfere with the enjoyment of the said things.

 

Sooetsu Yanagi（1889-1961) was an influential Japanese scholar who revitalised Mingei (folk craft, a catagory which the urushi fountain pen would probably fall under) and set up aesthetic criteria on craft items. Although he did not dwell too much on the flaws of a craft piece, he did emphasize on the usage as the most important aspect that would determine the beauty of it. I would imagine that he would ignore the flaws of a ceramic cup or urushi plate if those flaws did not affect the proper function and enjoyment of using the wares. However, the flaws may reach a point where the item may become too coarse in the hand or too ugly to behold. This is when the artisans need to evaluate whether they should redo the items, and when each consumer would have to determine if the line between what is acceptable and unacceptable has been reached.

 

Oh, he did mention capitalism and the machine as the main causes for the deterioration of standard in craft.

Edited November 14, 2014 by mchenart

[loddoss]

I was lucky to be able to attend the 2010 Maki-e Pen festival held at Itoya, Tokyo. When I walked in the showroom early in the morning, I met Mr. Toshiya Nakata, the president of Platinum/Nakaya and immediately struck up a conversation with him. I mentioned that I was a fan of their pens and really liked the finish on their urushi pens. To that he answered, he had to work hard on the stringent quality control, since he personally rejected a lot of pens with flaws. If I interpret his statement correctly, these were flaws that he himself would consider unacceptable.

Aesthetics could be a very personal thing. To my eyes, I prefer to get handmade items that are as perfectly crafted as possible. But if a person sees the light spot on your pen as wabi sabi and comes to liking it, that is alright too. And if Mr. Nakata were to inspect your pen personally, would it pass his inspection? I think not.

 

The store that I bought it from have written to Nakaya to see whether this is considered normal or not, I will update if there is anything. For now I am in mind of: With regards to Nakaya, is this an acceptable characteristic/fault? If it is considered within their norms, I will accept it as such and if I purchase a few more from them (as was planned), then I will accept it as within their QC norms. If it is not than I may ask for it to be returned/exchanged.

 

The norms of QC do differ greatly, even with handmade items. A pair of bespoke shoes, wallet or suit would not have any faults, or otherwise be considered 2nd grade (certainly in the UK, I would imagine the same in Japan). I have however bought other handmade items that have been less perfect (some handmade knives from France). I really do not know what the opinion of Nakaya is in regards to the Urushi finish QC, but it seems that Mr. Nakata might expect a more stringent QC... My final theory is that perhaps they are more likely to ship slightly less perfect products to certain regions and not to others

[loddoss]

The trouble is,... now you know where to look.

I've been through this dilemma with an American made look-alike. Your Nakaya is hand lathed & finished, not a mass produced item. This imperfection may be part of its charm.

But, what's your Nakata nib like? For me that would be the most important.

Enjoy that lovely pen.

 

Great nib! No complaints! I do also have a dip pen with many many many nibs So I was also looking for the awesome Urushi finish to compliment my other urushi finds. Thank you

[loddoss]

*Update*

 

Official Nakaya Reply:

 

"It is normal for Tame-nuri. No two are ever the same for Tame-nuri pens. The lighter part is the base color and the entire color will become the base color as the time
goes by, but it depends how the owner uses"

 

We could say that it is therefore within the QC standards of Nakaya.

[Finalist]

 

 

Check out my unique Nakaya tid bit...

 

I love the little "preworn" Tamenuri edges showing the brighter base colors, but can you spot the edge on mine that didn't come "preworn"? I noticed right away and thought how cool. I've never seen a Naka-ai Tamenuri without this "preworn" edge.

Look at the section. Where the nib fits into the section the first edge shows the blue/green, but then there should be a second line going around before you get to the gripping part of the section - it's just black. In time it will pop out as I can barely see little bits showing in one spot if I hold it just right and squint really hard, but for now it's not there and I love it. It makes the section look smoother and more unique.

[mirosc]

*Update*

 

Official Nakaya Reply:

 

"It is normal for Tame-nuri. No two are ever the same for Tame-nuri pens. The lighter part is the base color and the entire color will become the base color as the time

goes by, but it depends how the owner uses"

 

We could say that it is therefore within the QC standards of Nakaya.

We could also say that this is a generic reply regarding the principles of Tame-nuri pens and not really answering the problem of the spot.

But the important part is that you are happy and satisfied!