Yet Another Stub Question

November 5, 2014

Last time I visited my folks, I swapped my Silver metro F with dad's Charcoal Safari M. I can't live with a metro , so I bought a white MR M.

However, this is not the place for my love for metropolitans or nib width of Western and Asian nibs. YOU have already taught me that. Thank YOU.

The safari was bugging me for some time, yes it's a great pen (peace to safari haters), but it's pretty boring. So I thought about swapping the nib to an italic.

But Lamy replacement nibs are rare here in India and costs almost half of a new pen (900 INR for the nib, ~1700 the pen). So that was not a very good option to try my hand at an italic.

SO I kept looking and found a NOS 78g with a broad Stub. Now, what I know already from hanging around with you guys for over a year is that:

1. Stubs are slightly rounded (smoothed) at the corners, thus less scratchy.

2. Cursive Italics have sharper edges and can be a bit scratchy.

The ebay listing for the 78g mentioned stub. But I still find it quite scratchy. I've added a writing sample to show off the "always awesome" 78g & my amazingly awkward handwriting.

So here are my questions..

1. Is this a stub or a CI nib ?
2. What can I do to make it a bit smoother ?

The pen was dipped in pelikan RB.

November 5, 2014

1. Stubs are slightly rounded (smoothed) at the corners, thus less scratchy.
2. Cursive Italics have sharper edges and can be a bit scratchy.

Stubs are actually kind of rectangular in shape, and greatly rounded (smoothed) at the corners, and are not scratchy at all! (if properly aligned). Cursive italics do not have sharp edges, these ones have the slightly rounded corners, and they can seem scratchy is they are not used properly (check the angle of the nib relative to the horizontal lines of the paper...it should be about 45 degrees...check that first next time you write with it). The crisp italics (with straight cut points, no rounded edges) are the ones that can feel scratchier, especially if not held properly.

Your nib on the 78G is a cursive italic; stubs always have tipping material, cursive italics usually don't, especially in the lower end range: Lamy, TWSBI, Edison, Pilot 78G etc... in order to get a CI nib with tipping material, you need to have a custom grind done by a nibmeister most of the times.

If the nib still feels scratchy when held as suggested, try to look at the alignment of the tines, but just like Richard Binder specifies on the 6th page (page 5 of 10) of this excellent document: http://www.richardspens.com/pdf/workshop_notes.pdf ...it's the most probable cause of scratchiness. If one tine is lower than the other, gently push it upwards (away from the feed), to align it with the other. Take gentle steps, and examine your work constantly (also, use a 10x loupe!).

Hope this helps and good luck with your pen!

Edited November 5, 2014 by Murky

November 5, 2014

95% of scratchy comes from a misaligned nib or holding the pen too high.

Could be also you are rolling the nib as you write. Find the sweet spot and keep the nib in it.

Edited November 5, 2014 by Bo Bo Olson

November 7, 2014

Thanks BO BO & Murky. You guys definitely cleared my doubts. I already know about Richard Binder's methods, but thanks again.

So I checked the nibs under a magnifying glass (a jewellers loupe is en route) and it looked pretty even. So I took the pen in usual writing pose (uninked, but wet tip) and very slowly & carefully made 2-3 plus signs (+) on a 8k grit.

Writes much, much better now. Once I obtain a finer grit emery, I intend to make the edges a bit rounded.

Loving my first broad CI. Only downside is that I have to write a bit bigger.

Edited November 7, 2014 by Anirban4u

November 7, 2014

If you do not have enough ink flow, the nib will feel scratchy. The ink acts like a lubricant for the nib.

Also you need to write with very little pressure on the pen. More downward pressure = more friction = scratchy.

November 7, 2014

Get a butter line stub from Pendleton Brown. He does awesome nib grinds. No affiliation, just a very happy customer!

My modified nibs are as smooth as silk!

November 8, 2014

Looks like I got the same Pilot with a B stub. Came in the mail today. I tried it with a quick dip in Mont Blanc Black. It will take a bit of practice but I really like it.

011 by UGotaHaveArt, on Flickr

November 8, 2014

If you do not have enough ink flow, the nib will feel scratchy. The ink acts like a lubricant for the nib.
Also you need to write with very little pressure on the pen. More downward pressure = more friction = scratchy.

I just did a quick rinse & dip. Will tweak the feed if I find there's flow issues. Thanks

Get a butter line stub from Pendleton Brown. He does awesome nib grinds. No affiliation, just a very happy customer!
My modified nibs are as smooth as silk!

One day for sure. This is my first CI nib. I wasn't sure if I'd like it, so went the cheap way. But hey, pilot 78g Rocks

Looks like I got the same Pilot with a B stub. Came in the mail today. I tried it with a quick dip in Mont Blanc Black. It will take a bit of practice but I really like it.

011 by UGotaHaveArt, on Flickr

Knuckle bump. !

November 8, 2014

Get a butter line stub from Pendleton Brown. He does awesome nib grinds. No affiliation, just a very happy customer!
My modified nibs are as smooth as silk!

Pendleton's stubs are truly butter-line smooth.

I use stub nibs (.8 to 1.1) in nearly all writing. These nibs make it a little easier to find their sweet spot. They can be used almost as easily as the regular ball-tipped nibs.

Stubs & italics in general need more ink to be delivered to their writing edge. I have asked to have all these nibs adjusted for an ink flow in the 6/10 to 7/10 range & for the wider music nibs, a little more.

A Pilot G78 B nib is a great place to start. Not much wider than an European sized M. The G78 BB nib is nice too.

November 8, 2014

Thanks BO BO & Murky. You guys definitely cleared my doubts. I already know about Richard Binder's methods, but thanks again.
So I checked the nibs under a magnifying glass (a jewellers loupe is en route) and it looked pretty even. So I took the pen in usual writing pose (uninked, but wet tip) and very slowly & carefully made 2-3 plus signs (+) on a 8k grit.
Writes much, much better now. Once I obtain a finer grit emery, I intend to make the edges a bit rounded.
Loving my first broad CI. Only downside is that I have to write a bit bigger.

Do you have access to multi-surface buff stick manicure tools? Wonderfully handy, lol. Even the Big Guns use a similar product.

This is a rough idea, and expensive, but I've seen them for the equivalent of $1 USD.

Some have even more surfaces.

Closer, but not as many surfaces.

I just used mine (slightly different style) to smooth the catchy edges on a Pilot Plumix.