Dating Parker 75 Pens

[Darcy1978]

I'm reading this fascinating thread, but am still confused about my two 75 Godrons. I have one with the '30µ' engraving and without the adjustable nib markings, and one without the 30µ engraving and with adjustable nib markings. See pictures. How might I date them?

 

[alexwi]

  On 5/13/2020 at 2:16 PM, Darcy1978 said:

I'm reading this fascinating thread, but am still confused about my two 75 Godrons. I have one with the '30µ' engraving and without the adjustable nib markings, and one without the 30µ engraving and with adjustable nib markings. See pictures. How might I date them?

 

Hi Darcy,

 

I have no idea on how to date your two godrons. According to https://parkerpens.net/parker75.html, the Godron was introduced in 1983 (if I read the list correctly). According to http://www.parker75.com/Reference/Godron/Godron.htm, however, it was introduced in 1971, and the early editions of this series had the 30u plating thickness marking.

 

I think that, at best, you can hope to be able to date the cap and barrel, as sections and nibs are often exchanged from pen to pen, unless you bought them from their only owner (as opposed to buying it from someone who sells pens). Considering how easy the 75's parts are to swap and how compatible most of them are, regardless of generation, the section and nib don't say much of the provenance of the pen as a whole.

 

I have two Godrons, both with the 30µ mark and they have different sections (one with a steel ring with markings but no "0," and the other one with a narrow gold ring at the end - 3rd gen, if I'm not mistaken).

 

Having said all this, two more clues might be the tassies and the finish. The pictures in parker75.com all have flat tassies, while mine are dished, which is characteristic of older editions. Regarding the finish, the groves on both of your pens are finished differently - I have a feeling that the number of groves isn't the same either - but have no idea on how that ties into manufacturing date (there's a discussion about groves somewhere, but I can't recall if it was related to the Godron, or even to the 75). Both of mine are finished like the one on the right.

 

Alex

[Darcy1978]

Thank you, that is very valuable info. I hadn't considered that parts may have been switched around especially in the case of the 75.

 

In the table earlier in this thread, dished tassies are marked out as later versions than the flat tassies.

 

In another thread someone mentioned that 16 grooves is indicative of the Filette rather than the Godron, but both my pens have 23 grooves. The one the right has thicker grooves, it seems, making the cap not flush with the barrel. The plot thickens...

[alexwi]

True, but then parker75.com shows it as introduced in 1971 and has pictures showing a flatt-tassied Godron, so I'm wondering about that, because the table in this thread mentions that dished tassies started right then. What kind of tassies do yours have?

 

Unless you're certain that you got yours from their original owners, I wouldn't put much stock on the nibs and sections.

 

I think that the caps and barrels on both pens are matching sets. I also noticed that the clip on the left one seems a bit longer. The clip on mine is 43mm long.

 

alex

[Darcy1978]

Both have dished tassies - four dishes to be precise. I am pretty sure I didn't get them from the original owners. You are very observant, the one clip is indeed a bit longer. Glad you think the caps and barrels match - I was cleaning them and accidentally switched the caps around, but they're back on their right pens now

[Hanoi]

I think I am a budding Parker 75 fan. I have several now.

[inkstainedruth]

Not sure how I missed this thread before now -- possibly because my 75 is a fairly recent acquisition.

So, with all the discussion about stuff like the length of the feathers on the arrow, and the size of the cap band, and such, I'm not seeing much in the way of actual dimensions.

Sorry, no pix yet (I'm sweating out the weather at the moment, and mostly also just, um sweating because the living room AC is probably about 25 years old at this point (we bought it for our house in Massachusetts) but I have a Ciselé that I think is an early to mid-1970s model. US-made, dished gold colored tassies and gold clip, narrow (I think) cap band, and appears to have the plastic threading. Says "Parker" (clip side of the band) followed by:

STERLING

SILVER

(in really small letters, and lined up more or less like that).

Then says, MADE IN USA.

(I think that there's a period after the A, but it might be a slight ding or pockmark).

Then the Parker logo about 3/4 of the way around.

Finger grips on the section seem to be most of the length of the section, and section band starts at 0. 14K nib marked on the underside of the feed as "67" (can't tell if it actually writes like a B nib or not, since I don't really have anything to compare it to -- most of my 51s and 45s are in the EF to M range.

From looking at the photos of the different clips, I honestly can't tell whether the feathers are "short" or medium.

Oh, and the eBay seller said it was the original converter, but I couldn't tell from the pix I've seen whether it would be considered a "fat" converter or not....

So, from looking at the Parker 75 website and at the Parker 75 article on Tony Fischier's site, I'm guessing early 1970s.... I'm okay if I can't narrow it down further than that (most of my 51s don't have date codes so I do some general handwaving and go, "uh, pre-1957 because the sac sleeve says 'Use Superchrome ink'...."

But I had no idea on the crazy nuances between models -- I just knew "flat top = early" and "dished tassies = 1970s or later." So this has been a fascinating thread for me. I had read all the posts along the line of "My favorite pen is my 75!" but didn't really grok it until seeing one in an estate auction about a year or so ago. Didn't buy that pen because I just didn't know enough, and wasn't sure of the condition of the nib; but spent a lot of time at the Ohio Pen Show last fall trying to educate myself, asking questions of every vendor who had one on display about the differences between early and later, French production vs. US-made, and so on. Didn't get one there (my pen shopping budget mostly went towards a Dove Gray 51 Vac, instead ). But then started scouring the Bay of Evil, and asking the various sellers questions about the pens, especially if a seller had more than one listing. Then got lucky and somehow was the ONLY person watching the one I ended up getting.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

 

​edited for formatting issues

Edited June 10, 2020 by inkstainedruth

[Hanoi]

I have the impression that the cap and barrel tend to flock together for the Parker 75 while the nib section unit is occasionally switched out and will probably take years of monasteric research to ascertain what the original nib unit should be. With so many countries producing the Parker 75, I guess dating a certain model is at best an approximation. I find it strange that the Chinese haven´t entered the Parker 75 game with 5G/3D 100% accuracy cloning technology as that will complicate dating for sure.

Edited June 10, 2020 by Hanoi

[gregglee]

start here. http://www.parker75.addr.com/Reference/Parker75_Ref.htm

 

if it doesn't work cut and paste to browser

 

Some of the site functions (index, search) are broken but you can read in order and most links work from the page I started you on.

 

Re dimensions. There are easier cues. The number of feathers is different as well as length. Different sized arrow points are fairly easy to see. On the cross hatch grid pens he original narrow cap band is about 2 grid squares wide. The later wider cap band is about 3 grid squares wide. Grids are handy to measure clip as well. Sections differ in threads, however all but the extremely early are the same sized plastic. The section band markings differ, zero or no zero, all dashes the same or alternate lengths. On earlier pens the sections the ridges extend further toward the barrel. etc. Nib size markings change, tassies, country specific features. ....

Edited June 11, 2020 by gregglee

[Hanoi]

Vermeil means gold plating over sterling silver right? What are some cisele 75 marked as vermeil while others are not? are the non-vermeil versions have brass tassies and clips instead of gold plating sterling silver? How can you even tell the difference?

[inkstainedruth]

  On 6/11/2020 at 12:37 AM, gregglee said:

start here. http://www.parker75.addr.com/Reference/Parker75_Ref.htm

 

if it doesn't work cut and paste to browser

 

Some of the site functions (index, search) are broken but you can read in order and most links work from the page I started you on.

 

Re dimensions. There are easier cues. The number of feathers is different as well as length. Different sized arrow points are fairly easy to see. On the cross hatch grid pens he original narrow cap band is about 2 grid squares wide. The later wider cap band is about 3 grid squares wide. Grids are handy to measure clip as well. Sections differ in threads, however all but the extremely early are the same sized plastic. The section band markings differ, zero or no zero, all dashes the same or alternate lengths. On earlier pens the sections the ridges extend further toward the barrel. etc. Nib size markings change, tassies, country specific features. ....

 

The link you posted seems to be broken. Got an error message saying "Not found on this server". I did try the copy/paste trick, though, and it's the Parker 75 website; I've already looked at that, which is why I think mine is early 1970s.

The tip off about the cap band widths compared to the grid is good, though, thanks. And the description of the grip ridges (which also seems to confirm my thoughts of the pen being from the early 1970s. But the photo posted earlier of the three different clips? They all looked sort of the same to me.... (have not dug out a ruler to measure the clip on mine yet). I'll have to pull mine out of the canister of in-rotation pens to look at the lines on the section band.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[gregglee]

I think I had a couple spaces after the url which got in the way of copy/ paste.

After the not found message delete everything after htm from the address window the enter.

then click" enter the site."

 

With search and index not working, finding everything on that site is frustrating. There are crosslinks all through it but not always intuitive where they are located.