Dating Parker 75 Pens

[idazle]

Inspired by the excellent thread "Dating Montblanc 149s", I've thought we could try to embark upon a similar task with another iconic pen, the Sterling silver cross-hatch Parker 75. So please take a look at the chart below, which I have partly based on information from the Parker75 website and partly on advertisements and my own observation of a good many number of exemplars.

 

The idea is that this be an ongoing exercise to which some of you could eventually contribute. For the time being I've limited this to the sterling silver cross-hatch pens made in the USA in the 1963-1975 period, which are the core of my own collection.

 

... and please don't be too harsh on me!!!

 

Edited October 29, 2014 by idazle

[icardoth]

Nice idea! You can also add the Parker imprint position (front or back of cap) and the imprint itself (Sterling Silver, Sterling Cap & Barrel). I will check my collection in order to contribute.

[idazle]

  On 10/30/2014 at 1:45 AM, icardoth said:

Nice idea! You can also add the Parker imprint position (front or back of cap) and the imprint itself (Sterling Silver, Sterling Cap & Barrel). I will check my collection in order to contribute.

 

Hi icardoth, the imprint position is already in the table under "non grid cap band" as "front engraving" or "back engraving". In fact I would say it is a key feature for dating purposes as according to some ads there were pens sporting the "front Parker imprint" as late as 1973. Accordingly you can see some pens still with the "front engraving-narrow band" showing dished tassies and new style clip. So not all modifications to the 1960s design were introduced at the same time in 1970 along with the flat tassie, as some people think.

[ANOTHER MIND]

Hi. Thank you for sharing it! So, my pen is from '71 I was not able to date it until now.

Edited October 31, 2014 by ARVA

[idazle]

I'm glad to hear that you've found it useful.

 

I've tried to edit the first post to include a picture that can help to understand the chart, but I can't. So I attach it below. On the right side of the pic, we see the "old style clip", with the short feathered section and the small arrowhead. On the left the "new style clip", which apart of sporting the long feathered section and the large arrowhead is slightly shorter

 

The pen on the left (1974) also shows a "broad cap band" with no engraving on the front (it's on the rear of the cap), which apparently was done to leave room for personalization. However not all pens of the 1971(?)-1973 transition period show new style clip and broad band at the same time like the exemplar here, many show new style clips and old narrow bands,

 

[idazle]

I've come across an interesting Parker 75 exemplar dated December 1971 (certified by papers) which is being sold in e-Bay with the following characteristics: flat tassies, zero mark, front-engraved narrow band but ... new style clip. I attach pics and update the chart accordingly. Have a nice Sunday!

 

 

 

[idazle]

An additional comment. I guess that at this stage we could safely talk of 4 periods in early US-made Parker 75 cross-hatch pen production:

 

1.- 1964-1965: First edition pens, with the metal thread at the section.

2.- Pre 1972 pens, which most likely will show flat tassies, narrow cap band with front engraving, old style short arrowhead clip and zero mark on the chome ring

3.- Transitional 1972-1973 period, where pens will certainly not carry the zero mark any more and most likely show dished tassies and narrow cap bands but can sport either old or new style clips.

3.- Post 1973 pens, with dished tassies, wide cap band with no front engraving, new style clip and no zero mark on the chrome ring.

[icardoth]

I've found an inconsistency in one of my pens:

 

 

 

 

Narrow cap band, front engraving and 1980 date code. By the way, it has dished tassies.

 

 

 

 

[idazle]

Icardoth, it is a wide band, not a narrowband. The peculiar thing about this pen is that the Parker inscription appears under the clip and not at the cap rear as is usual with wide bands. Maybe some pens came out of the factory like this, maybe the clip was just rotated at a later stage as a result of a repair or out of the owner preference. Who knows? I'll keep an eye on pens of this period just in case I come across another one like this.

 

Best

 

Carlos

[Matlock]

  On 11/3/2014 at 7:29 AM, idazle said:

Icardoth, it is a wide band, not a narrowband. The peculiar thing about this pen is that the Parker inscription appears under the clip and not at the cap rear as is usual with wide bands. Maybe some pens came out of the factory like this, maybe the clip was just rotated at a later stage as a result of a repair or out of the owner preference. Who knows? I'll keep an eye on pens of this period just in case I come across another one like this.

 

Best

 

Carlos

 

The clip cannot have been rotated as it is notched into the cap (unlike the early models which were notched into the top tassie).

However I believe you will have your work cut out to list all variations, there are so many.

Edited November 3, 2014 by Matlock

[idazle]

I knew the clip was notched into the tassie in the 1st year of production and was modified for practical reasons, because with that system it was difficult to align the clip's arrowhead with the band's inscription below it. But I didn't know -and actually surprises me- that the clip is notched into the cap and not a removable piece in later versions. I think I've seen spare Parker 75 clips on sale here and there, but am not sure.

Edited November 3, 2014 by idazle

[idazle]

A Parker 75 detached clip:

 

[Matlock]

  On 11/3/2014 at 7:59 AM, idazle said:

A Parker 75 detached clip:

 

 

Yes spare clips are available. The notch in the cap ensures that the clip does not rotate but the clip is still removable, this is common to all 75s other than the first few with the notched tassie.

[idazle]

  On 11/3/2014 at 7:36 AM, Matlock said:

 

However I believe you will have your work cut out to list all variations, there are so many.

 

Not that many, but in any event that is precisely the fun of it!

[ceejaybee]

  On 11/3/2014 at 10:29 AM, idazle said:

 

Not that many, but in any event that is precisely the fun of it!

More than you think and hopefully as you'll discover..........

You've made a good start documenting some of the features and basic changes to the Sterling 75s made for the USA market but an important point to make at this stage is that Parker (USA) manufactured Sterling Cisele 75s for International markets too and you'll find some interesting variations especially for some of their European exports.

 

The Ebay pen photographed is the perfect example, study the clip very closely and tell me what you see..................?? let's some have fun

 

You could also extend the date range of your study from 1975 to the end of USA production, this would then include a further change to the cap band inscription in 1979 where the date code was added and the 'PARKER' inscription was moved to the front of the band again as shown on Icadoth's 75.

[idazle]

  On 11/3/2014 at 11:17 AM, ceejaybee said:

More than you think and hopefully as you'll discover..........

 

I am all ears! Tell us what are all those many variations in the period of the chart, besides those I already mentioned for the 1972-73 transition period. It'll be most useful.

 

Look, I'm not competing to show that I am the smartest guy of the flock ;-) The idea is that others can contribute by bringing examples, new information, etc., not just playing down the initiative or adopting a patronizing attitude toward the OP.

Edited November 3, 2014 by idazle

[Matlock]

  On 11/3/2014 at 12:35 PM, idazle said:

 

I am all ears! Tell us what are all those many variations in the period of the chart, besides those I already mentioned for the 1972-73 transition period. It'll be most useful.

 

Look, I'm not competing to show that I am the smartest guy of the flock ;-) The idea is that others can contribute by bringing examples, new information, etc., not just playing down the initiative or adopting a patronizing attitude toward the OP.

 

Keep up the good work. It seems that you are getting some positive feedback, I hope no one is being patronizing.

[icardoth]

  On 11/3/2014 at 7:29 AM, idazle said:

Icardoth, it is a wide band, not a narrowband. The peculiar thing about this pen is that the Parker inscription appears under the clip and not at the cap rear as is usual with wide bands. Maybe some pens came out of the factory like this, maybe the clip was just rotated at a later stage as a result of a repair or out of the owner preference. Who knows? I'll keep an eye on pens of this period just in case I come across another one like this.

 

 

You are right, it's a wide cap band. But all the other 75s I own with wide cap band have a blank space below the clip, intended to make some owner's engraving. So it's not possible to rotate the clip because there are no blank zones in the band.

[ceejaybee]

I wasn't patronizing you at all, what I was trying to do is to encourage you to look at the finer details/features and contemplate the fact that as Matlock mentioned there are many variations, some of which you may not have considered or encountered yet

 

For instance the 1963-65 pens have a finer engraved crosshatch pattern than the later pens as well as the notched tassie with the inset clip, it's not just the metal sections that differentiate it from the later pens.

 

With regards to the Ebay pen, although this style of clip was also found on the early French made Place Vendome series in a plated version, this particular clip is a variant only seen on Sterling 75s produced for the UK market, it has more feathers (although more defined) as with the later clips but the arrowhead is smaller similar to the earlier clips. What makes it most interesting is that it is made of 9K gold and was made specially to meet the requirements of the UK Assay Office. It should only appear on Sterling 75's produced between 1965-69, it's possible to date these pens accurately as the Assay Office also incorporate a date letter stamp as one part of the hallmark. The tassies on the 'UK 75s' are also made of gold plated sterling silver and hallmarked accordingly. Needless to say that the box and paperwork for this pen are likely not original although it is quite possible that the pen was originally sold in 1971 after being kept in stock for a few years??

 

http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab212/ceejaybee_photo/9kclip2.jpg

 

Hopefully this helps??

[idazle]

  On 11/3/2014 at 3:10 PM, ceejaybee said:

Hopefully this helps??

 

Indeed