FP's used in armed forces during WWII?

[HBlaine]

  On 5/31/2005 at 3:41 PM, chela said:

 

I assume that ball points were not yet on the scene during WWII, right?

 

 

 

Actually they were. I don't have my reference books with me, but... The Martin Co. of England made pens under (I believe) a license/agreement/somesuch off the Biro patents, which were supplied to RAF pilots. Some of these made their way into the hands of USAAF airmen. Examples of these Martin pens (or "biros") were sent to some of the major American pen makers to be duplicated. There are copies in one of the reference books of documents from Sheaffer, where they submitted their efforts back to the government.

 

And, of course, the Biro-designed Eterpen was on the market, if anyone happened to be passing through Buenos Aires during the war...

Edited August 28, 2012 by HBlaine

[zubipen]

  HBlaine said:

1346117162[/url]' post='2446514']

  chela said:

1117554092[/url]' post='23394']

I assume that ball points were not yet on the scene during WWII, right?

 

 

 

Actually they were. I don't have my reference books with me, but... The Martin Co. of England made pens under (I believe) a license/agreement/somesuch off the Biro patents, which were supplied to RAF pilots. Some of these made their way into the hands of USAAF airmen. Examples of these Martin pens (or "biros") were sent to some of the major American pen makers to be duplicated. There are copies in one of the reference books of documents from Sheaffer, where they submitted their efforts back to the government.

 

And, of course, the Biro-designed Eterpen was on the market, if anyone happened to be passing through Buenos Aires during the war...

Thank you. This info is completely new for me. I also belived that the ballpoint was introduced after the war. It will be wonderfull if you can iprovide us with a copy of the Sheaffer documents

[Kaweco]

  On 8/27/2012 at 7:04 PM, zubipen said:

 

 

................ I suppose, some German officials used MB pens, of their property instead of those provided with the regular equipment.I am agree that in those days MB pens were, as today, high price products.

Hello Zubipen

Why this? In the old times MB was not THE outstanding trade mark, it was one among others. The hype of today can`t be extrapolated to history. Like all other fountainpen producers the MB works suffered during war times from the shortage of raw materials and the through Albert Speer forced transformation of all industries to war productions during there was a higher, nearly inflating demand for writing articles. I have an original letter which tells that they tried to change booking procedures, because they couldn`t fulfill their longlasting contracts with their civil customers.

[zubipen]

  On 8/28/2012 at 6:50 AM, Kaweco said:

  On 8/27/2012 at 7:04 PM, zubipen said:

................ I suppose, some German officials used MB pens, of their property instead of those provided with the regular equipment.I am agree that in those days MB pens were, as today, high price products.

Hello Zubipen

Why this? In the old times MB was not THE outstanding trade mark, it was one among others. The hype of today can`t be extrapolated to history. Like all other fountainpen producers the MB works suffered during war times from the shortage of raw materials and the through Albert Speer forced transformation of all industries to war productions during there was a higher, nearly inflating demand for writing articles. I have an original letter which tells that they tried to change booking procedures, because they couldn`t fulfill their longlasting contracts with their civil customers.

 

I supposed that in those days MB pens were more expensive than Pelikans, Kaweco, etc. I have not any evidence of that.

Edited August 28, 2012 by zubipen

[Ernst Bitterman]

When I was doing a little research into Pelikan, I was surprised to find statements that wartime material shortages pushed the maker into offering steel rather than gold points. This is surprising because US pens were substituting in the other direction; the most obvious being gold-plated silver hardware replacing the usual brass. I don't imagine there's a lot of gold mines in Germany (and that the various sub-devils under Hitler appear to have been busily flinging all the gold in Fortress Europa into their personal vaults), but I should have thought there would have been more of a premium on steel in the Reich than on gold.

Edited August 28, 2012 by Ernst Bitterman

[zubipen]

Also Montblanc and other trademarks used different materials for nibs and also for the cap bands

[Kaweco]

  On 8/28/2012 at 8:12 PM, Ernst Bitterman said:

When I was doing a little research into Pelikan, I was surprised to find statements that wartime material shortages pushed the maker into offering steel rather than gold points. This is surprising because US pens were substituting in the other direction; the most obvious being gold-plated silver hardware replacing the usual brass. I don't imagine there's a lot of gold mines in Germany (and that the various sub-devils under Hitler appear to have been busily flinging all the gold in Fortress Europa into their personal vaults), but I should have thought there would have been more of a premium on steel in the Reich than on gold.

Hello Ernst Bitterman

I am afraid that we deviate a little bit from the original topic but the use of gold in nibs during the nazi era is important, so I will give a comment. I am concerned in this theme and make investigationes since an important collector from Israel demanded to abolish each German fountain pen made during the times of the nazi era from our collecting field. Possibly these pens could have been made by forced slave work or the nibs could have been made of gold from his murdered ancestors. This argumentation is imaginable but the real story behind the gold transfers in war times is different. The use of gold in private commodities was prohibited. This includes gold nibs from 1936 on. The nazis forced the industries to invent a substitute and the Degussa made an alloy of Palladium and Silver, called Palliag but also these metals had been forbidden by law in 1938/1939. Many gold nibs were ripped off from old fountain pens and must have been sold to the Reichsbank. Pelikan used the Chrome- Nickel alloys (CN) but mostly V4A Supra steels had been used. The shortage during the war was tremendous and in the end only few bad and brittle steel nibs had been on display.

Yes, Ernst, there was a slogan „Gold gab ich für Eisen“, (I gave gold for iron). This feigned ridiculous message stemmed from the German Kaiser and did not concern the shortage of raw materials, the Kaiser tried to finance his own war, later known as world war 1 1914 - 1918. People gave wedding rings, gold teeth and jewelries and therefore they got an iron sticker or a pin with this slogan.

Nearly two decades later Germany had changed the Kaiser with another dictator. hitler actually knew, that he was on a way to another world war and he and his nazi oligarchy needed more gold than ever to finance the German arming and the deficiency state economy. First they stole the funds from parties and laber unions and especially the posessions from jews. After beginning of ww2 special ss troops went into the banks of the occupied countries and took off gold, coins and foreign currencies. I don`t want to be cynical but it possibly looked like a cheap movie.

Where did the gold go ?

Im January 1998 the archieve of the Dresdner Bank, one of the greatest German private banks, opened. The Hannah Arend Institute for Totalitarism Research made exstensive investigationes here and in other archieves between Moscow and Washington to clear up who made the deals and who is responsible. The author of the report was the historian Johannes Bähr and it is a „must“ to read, for people who are interested in discovering of the nazi crimes.

Between 1939 and 1945 the Dresdner Bank purchased 5,76 tons of gold from the Reichsbank and sold 5,12 tons. The bank knew, where the gold originally came from, most of the managing board had been ss officers. Especially in the early 40th masses of Dutch, Belgian and French gold coins appeared. Trading with gold was strongly restricted, the Reichsbank only and private banks like Dresdner Bank and Deutsche Bank had a gold trading licence. Their trading interests had not been forced by the government, there had been only private economical interests of the banks. The Dresdner Bank had a department in Istanbul, the Deutsche Orient Bank and across this relay the gold was sold. Istanbul was the last free market place for gold with a German access and the gold price in Turkey was much higher because of the big inflation. Gold was carried by agents and in luggages of diplomates. The Reichsbank and the private banks worked with extremely high profits. Possibly the whole world purchased from this gold stock.

It was provable that the Dresdner Bank purchased 274 Kilogramms (possibly more) from the „Melmer- Gold“. This was teeth- gold and jewel- gold which directely came from Jews, who had been killed in the concentratin camps. The profit for this 24 gold ingots allone was 127000 – 156000 Swiss Francs. 100 Kilogramms went to the Wiener Länderbank (Vienna) and than to a depot in Istanbul. In August 1944 Turkey broke off the diplomatic connections and confiscated the gold. The Dresdner Bank depot in Vienna contained at least 280 Kilogramm Gold. This was returned to München (Munich) and had been confiscated by American allied troops after the war had ended.

A hard economy crisis in Turkey in the 50th forced them to make a deal with Germany. Turkey got credits and returned the gold which provable stemmed from nazi gold. Bonn and the Dresdner Bank immediately sold it to Switzerland.

A lot of scenes actually remind on Hollywood films but had been cruel reality.

I read from an Degussa nib production manager who told, that shortly after the war several times a razzia group of American soldiers came to his small factory in Dossenheim/ Germany, to search and dig for gold.

They never found anything.

Kind Regards

Thomas

Sources: Hannah Arend Institut/ Bähr- Report

Degussa Archieve

Private oral history

[crescentfiller]

I trust that when you say "This was teeth- gold and jewel- gold which directely came from Jews, who had been killed in the concentratin camps" you are not suggesting that the Germans chose not to extract the gold from the mouths of their 5 million to 11 million non-Jewish civilian victims of the Holocaust (Roma, Poles, Serbs, Russians, Ukrainians, Belarussians, gays, and the handicapped). Surely that gold was as brutally extracted and readily sold to keep the German war machine ticking over. Of the nearly 2 million ethic Polish civilians murdered in the Holocaust, I am sure there were a good few gold teeth to be found--not to mention fountain pens!. If one looks at Mein Kampf, one quickly sees just where the Poles specifically, and Slavs in general, ranked in Hitler's list of undesirables. Much work is being done by historians at present to realign the old numbers and categories to better reflect the actual events.

Of course, Arendt's own writings on totalitarianism are most powerful and terribly enlightening.

But I digress.

[Kaweco]

Hello crescentfiller

No, it was not my intension to talk only about the Jewish people whom hitler had sent to the comcentration camps, you are right there had been lots of other people you mentioned.Thank you for your input. My intension was to talk about a theme, which IMHO never had been talked about here. But there was no discussion and I just thougt to remove the article because it could be annoying, unpleasant, too intrinsic or sophisticated. Or perhaps just boring for our society of today?

Edited September 1, 2012 by Kaweco

[Kaweco]

removed

[Mags]

  On 8/20/2012 at 4:42 PM, Chi Town said:

About 7 years ago I purchased off the bay a wwll writers kit, complete with a pen and other misc things that a soldier left behind in his kit, including a address book, some pay stubs and things along those lines. I am at a doctors office right now, but when I get home I'll post some pictures of the kit and the pen.

 

 

http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/ChiTown51/WWllWritingKit001.jpg

 

http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/ChiTown51/WWllWritingKit002.jpg

 

http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/ChiTown51/WWllWritingKit005.jpg

 

http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/ChiTown51/WWllWritingKit006.jpg

 

http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/ChiTown51/WWllWritingKit007.jpg

I hope that you like this, as I am just in love with this whole set up!

 

I love these historic snapshots in time like the kit, pen, letters, even the address book.

 

My brief 2 1/2 years with the signals I had a modern kit like this we called it the Junior General kit in buying them to store papers for personal and DND use. My own kit was just handed off to another NCM or Junior Officer....I dont recall who I passed it to.

[Chi Town]

B

  maguirer said:

1346707375[/url]' post='2452384']

  Chi Town said:

1345480955[/url]' post='2440041']

About 7 years ago I purchased off the bay a wwll writers kit, complete with a pen and other misc things that a soldier left behind in his kit, including a address book, some pay stubs and things along those lines. I am at a doctors office right now, but when I get home I'll post some pictures of the kit and the pen.

 

Thanks now I can put a name to my "kit" as I never knew what it was called. I just picked it up of the bay

 

http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/ChiTown51/WWllWritingKit001.jpg

 

http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/ChiTown51/WWllWritingKit002.jpg

 

http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/ChiTown51/WWllWritingKit005.jpg

 

http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/ChiTown51/WWllWritingKit006.jpg

 

http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/ChiTown51/WWllWritingKit007.jpg

I hope that you like this, as I am just in love with this whole set up!

 

I love these historic snapshots in time like the kit, pen, letters, even the address book.

 

My brief 2 1/2 years with the signals I had a modern kit like this we called it the Junior General kit in buying them to store papers for personal and DND use. My own kit was just handed off to another NCM or Junior Officer....I dont recall who I passed it to.

[Chi Town]

Thanks, now I can put a name to my "kit" as I never knew what it's name was I just picked it up off the bay.

[pienaar]

What I was thinking had already been talked about. Please delete my post.

Edited September 22, 2012 by pienaar

[Averett]

Hey there. I'm new to fountain pens and have been doing a little reading on them. I have found Mabie-Todd and Swan pens to be particularly beautiful. They capture my fancy just as much as Parker, Sheaffer or Waterman. All of the posts I have read so far have to do with what the military used, but I am interested in what was available to those left at home, particularly in England, where Swan was manufactured. How was manufacturing in WWII? Was manufacturing of Swan pens in decline at that point? Was the availability of materials so reduced that very few pens were produced? I am very interested in collecting any and all pens used during WWII, whether by the military or on the home front. I am enchanted by both Mabie-Todd and Swan pens, but know little about their history. I would be grateful for any input.

Averett

[nigelg]

One of my recent google alerts threw up this snippet from Jan 1944. First paragraph refers. I seems they used whatever FPs they could get their hands on.

[donwinn]

Some time back a gentleman at the Dallas Pen Club gave a talk about a Parker Vacumatic he had purchased, and tracked down the original owner. The original owner had received the pen as a high school grad gift, and carried it with him all through WWII. He started writing to a pen pal, through a program to have people writing to GIs. At the end of the war, he met his pen pal lady and they ended up getting married, and were still married a few years ago, for over 60 years. The original owner told the recent buyer that that pen brought him to his bride.

[jar]

  On 1/24/2014 at 2:47 PM, Averett said:

Hey there. I'm new to fountain pens and have been doing a little reading on them. I have found Mabie-Todd and Swan pens to be particularly beautiful. They capture my fancy just as much as Parker, Sheaffer or Waterman. All of the posts I have read so far have to do with what the military used, but I am interested in what was available to those left at home, particularly in England, where Swan was manufactured. How was manufacturing in WWII? Was manufacturing of Swan pens in decline at that point? Was the availability of materials so reduced that very few pens were produced? I am very interested in collecting any and all pens used during WWII, whether by the military or on the home front. I am enchanted by both Mabie-Todd and Swan pens, but know little about their history. I would be grateful for any input.

Averett

 

Yes, domestic home front production of many items came to a halt as manufacturing lines and facilities were redirected and redesigned to build war materials. In England and much of Europe there was also the additional problem that manufacturing facilities themselves were destroyed which further reduced any domestic production.

[JohnEbach]

I was perusing the Montblanc forum earlier this week and was viewing an entry of MB fountain pens from the 30's thru the 50's. There was a whole group of pens that I had heard about where the gold on outer pen was replaced by engraving . It was really neat to actually see how this looked.

 

John

[Tas]

  On 7/24/2012 at 12:10 AM, thorn said:

My Dad joined the Navy when he was 17 years old, 2 weeks before his 18th birthday in Jan 1944. He was in boot camp and radio school in Farragut, Idaho. Later, in Oregon and California. He wrote home almost everyday to my Grandparents in KS and they saved all the letters in a scrap book. My Dad scanned them about 10 years ago. He wrote them with a fountain pen, a type writer and pencil. I asked him before he passed away about the fountain pens. He remembered using a fountain pen but did not know what brand.

 

Link to the Letters

 

Here's some samples:

 

Blue ink:

 

He said that some guys on the ship he was stationed on bought some of the first ball point pens but they didn't last long and were expensive. He said he stuck with fountain pens and the type writer. I have not read all the letters, he may talk about fountain pens or the ball point pens. I guess I should transcribe them.

 

In the early 50s he bought my Mother a Snorkel which I still have. She used to write letters with it. When I was in high school he bought me a Targa and he got a silver Sheaffer for himself. I also have some of their Sheaffer ink from the 80s.

 

Speechless . . .