FP's used in armed forces during WWII?

[georges zaslavsky]

very interesting thread

[Beechwood]

Parker Canada produced an Active Service Set in a brown leather case around 1940 for the striped duofold, something similar was available for the Vacumatic

[georges zaslavsky]

  On 8/16/2012 at 4:35 PM, Beechwood said:

Parker Canada produced an Active Service Set in a brown leather case around 1940 for the striped duofold, something similar was available for the Vacumatic

very nice

[Chi Town]

About 7 years ago I purchased off the bay a wwll writers kit, complete with a pen and other misc things that a soldier left behind in his kit, including a address book, some pay stubs and things along those lines. I am at a doctors office right now, but when I get home I'll post some pictures of the kit and the pen.

 

 

http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/ChiTown51/WWllWritingKit001.jpg

 

http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/ChiTown51/WWllWritingKit002.jpg

 

http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/ChiTown51/WWllWritingKit005.jpg

 

http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/ChiTown51/WWllWritingKit006.jpg

 

http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff451/ChiTown51/WWllWritingKit007.jpg

 

I hope that you like this, as I am just in love with this whole set up!

Edited August 20, 2012 by Chi Town

[Beechwood]

Thanks George, the pen and pencil had both been superbly protected by the leather, first such set I have seen.

Edited August 20, 2012 by Beechwood

[pienaar]

I have been listening to a book about WWI called "Fighting France" It is a very well written book.(Really well written) I fount it on http://librivox.org/ It is very well done. Really if you enjoy this type of history it would be fun for you to take a listen. (it is free) But the reason I bring it up is this. In that book (non fiction) she talked about when the men are sent to hospital after being wounded they are issued fountain pens. Maybe that is the same for WWII. I have spent my life studying WWII and I own most of the battle rifles from that war. Fountain pens and how they are issued is not something I have studied. But this is a topic I am looking for info on, and it is driving me nuts LOL.

[arcaneradio]

I did some looking on ebay for the Sheaffer Military pin. It has a distinctive cap but I have seen both lever and piston fill models.

Can anyone shed some light on differences between the 2 and maybe provide some picture?

These are very nice looking pens and I want to get one some day.

[jar]

  On 8/21/2012 at 1:08 AM, arcaneradio said:

I did some looking on ebay for the Sheaffer Military pin. It has a distinctive cap but I have seen both lever and piston fill models.

Can anyone shed some light on differences between the 2 and maybe provide some picture?

These are very nice looking pens and I want to get one some day.

 

 

The pens came in both lever fill and vacfil versions. There were four basic models IIRC two white dot, two feathertouch as well as one labeled "Airman" or "Skyboy" or something like that and an autograph banded one. The highest price standard size white dot was called the Valiant, the slimmer white dot was the Vigilant and the non-lifetime models were the Defender and the lowest priced slimmer Commandant. Bill Maudlin would approve.

[carlc]

  On 8/3/2012 at 1:29 PM, Rosetta59 said:

  On 8/2/2012 at 1:20 AM, Parker51 said:

  On 8/1/2012 at 11:38 AM, Rosetta59 said:

"In a book I read on the American POW experience under the Japanese during the first part of WWII, prisoners were searched and watches-rings-fountain pens or any valuable were snapped up quickly. According to the author, Parkers and Sheaffer's were especially prized. Any reluctance or attempt to "hide" the objects were met with brutal beatings, bayoneting and later in the march to the POW camps, death if found.

This post has been edited by hardyb: 17 June 2012 - 07:13 PM"

 

 

I read another book (Crimes and mercies, by the canadian author James Bacque), where German prisoners in US and Allied POW camps were not only "seached and watches-rings-fountain pens or any valuable were snapped up quickly", but were moreover starved to death. From 1.5 to 2 million german soldiers found death in the allied camps "after" the war...

 

Key qualifier is "Allied POW camps". The vast majority of deaths of German military prisoners were among those taken by the Red Army and used as forced labourers, during and after the war. Their were comparatively few German military prisoners taken by the US whom died, though there were some. The German military prisoners whom starved to death were also relatively few in number, and primarily occurred among those taken prisoner by the Red Army during the War, when food was very limited in both the German Army and the Red Army, and even among these, death due to disease, or exposure was more likely.

 

Please have a good reading: Crimes and Mercies by James Bacque, you have a lot to learn ...

 

Actually Bacque states it was mostly a Soviet issue - though there were definitely POW and civilian deaths that can be laid at the door of the 'Western' allies.

 

So whilst not disputing your point entirely I dispute the tone and implication.

[Rosetta59]

  On 8/21/2012 at 4:08 AM, carlc said:

  On 8/3/2012 at 1:29 PM, Rosetta59 said:

  On 8/2/2012 at 1:20 AM, Parker51 said:

  On 8/1/2012 at 11:38 AM, Rosetta59 said:

"In a book I read on the American POW experience under the Japanese during the first part of WWII, prisoners were searched and watches-rings-fountain pens or any valuable were snapped up quickly. According to the author, Parkers and Sheaffer's were especially prized. Any reluctance or attempt to "hide" the objects were met with brutal beatings, bayoneting and later in the march to the POW camps, death if found.

This post has been edited by hardyb: 17 June 2012 - 07:13 PM"

 

 

I read another book (Crimes and mercies, by the canadian author James Bacque), where German prisoners in US and Allied POW camps were not only "seached and watches-rings-fountain pens or any valuable were snapped up quickly", but were moreover starved to death. From 1.5 to 2 million german soldiers found death in the allied camps "after" the war...

 

Key qualifier is "Allied POW camps". The vast majority of deaths of German military prisoners were among those taken by the Red Army and used as forced labourers, during and after the war. Their were comparatively few German military prisoners taken by the US whom died, though there were some. The German military prisoners whom starved to death were also relatively few in number, and primarily occurred among those taken prisoner by the Red Army during the War, when food was very limited in both the German Army and the Red Army, and even among these, death due to disease, or exposure was more likely.

 

Please have a good reading: Crimes and Mercies by James Bacque, you have a lot to learn ...

 

Actually Bacque states it was mostly a Soviet issue - though there were definitely POW and civilian deaths that can be laid at the door of the 'Western' allies.

 

So whilst not disputing your point entirely I dispute the tone and implication.

 

James Bacque did a scientific work. It is based only on US Army data, because soviets did not disclose theirs...

You british... You dispute the tone and implications... Ha ha ha !

[carlc]

Actually Bacque used declassified KGB documents and German census data. He also makes a supposition of what the population 'should have been' to create the lost population - hardly scientific. He provides no absolute evidence - much of the work is based on subjective reports and data from his previous, discredited, book.

 

I dispute the patronising tone of your post to Parker 51 - unnecessary and based on one book (by an author widely recognised to have been very wrong in his first book).

 

The implication of your post seemed to be that it was a deliberate policy of the Western powers which there is no evidence for.

 

That robbery and death happened is not in dispute, the subtext is.

 

ETA: this is a pen forum and these 'off topic' discussions threaten the main point of the thread so if you wish to continue let's do it via PM?

Edited August 21, 2012 by carlc

[northlodge]

  On 8/21/2012 at 9:24 AM, Rosetta59 said:

  On 8/21/2012 at 4:08 AM, carlc said:

So whilst not disputing your point entirely I dispute the tone and implication.

 

James Bacque did a scientific work. It is based only on US Army data, because soviets did not disclose theirs...

You british... You dispute the tone and implications... Ha ha ha !

 

You appear to have an agenda here!

 

 

I note that carlc does not fly any particular flag of identification, and could for all you know he may well be a German residing in the UK.

 

Herr Carl, you put your argument very well

[zubipen]

  On 8/21/2012 at 6:25 PM, northlodge said:

  On 8/21/2012 at 9:24 AM, Rosetta59 said:

  On 8/21/2012 at 4:08 AM, carlc said:

So whilst not disputing your point entirely I dispute the tone and implication.

 

James Bacque did a scientific work. It is based only on US Army data, because soviets did not disclose theirs...

You british... You dispute the tone and implications... Ha ha ha !

 

You appear to have an agenda here!

 

 

I note that carlc does not fly any particular flag of identification, and could for all you know he may well be a German residing in the UK.

 

Herr Carl, you put your argument very well

 

Let´s be neutral and objective about this matter. For my and I am sure for others, is very interesting to learn which pens were used in WWII, only for historical curiosity and in no way to arise political assumptions from that information. So lets´be neutral and be objective about the former and new information we may obtain about this matter

 

 

 

[zubipen]

  On 8/21/2012 at 6:25 PM, northlodge said:

  On 8/21/2012 at 9:24 AM, Rosetta59 said:

  On 8/21/2012 at 4:08 AM, carlc said:

So whilst not disputing your point entirely I dispute the tone and implication.

 

James Bacque did a scientific work. It is based only on US Army data, because soviets did not disclose theirs...

You british... You dispute the tone and implications... Ha ha ha !

 

You appear to have an agenda here!

 

 

I note that carlc does not fly any particular flag of identification, and could for all you know he may well be a German residing in the UK.

 

Herr Carl, you put your argument very well

 

Let´s be neutral and objective about this matter. For my and I am sure for others, is very interesting to learn which pens were used in WWII, only for historical curiosity and in no way to arise political assumptions from that information. So lets´be neutral and be objective about the former and new information we may obtain about this matter

 

 

 

[zubipen]

And what about the other side: Pelikans?; Montblanc; Auroras; Pilot? Any information. I remember an old topic here about a Montblanc recovered from a submarine. As far as I remembered it is in a museum. Also there was some incredible history/investigation about a Pelikan found in the grave of a Polish captain, who is a Hero in his country. Such pen was recovered and sent to a museum. It Italy as I remembered was an Aurora Etiopia edition, commemorating the triumph of Italy against Poland. In GB there are a lot of histories about Churchill with Onoto?; Conway S? . I don´t remember any info about Japan. They used pens or brushes?

[carlc]

  On 8/21/2012 at 10:37 PM, zubipen said:

And what about the other side: Pelikans?; Montblanc; Auroras; Pilot? Any information. I remember an old topic here about a Montblanc recovered from a submarine. As far as I remembered it is in a museum. Also there was some incredible history/investigation about a Pelikan found in the grave of a Polish captain, who is a Hero in his country. Such pen was recovered and sent to a museum. It Italy as I remembered was an Aurora Etiopia edition, commemorating the triumph of Italy against Poland. In GB there are a lot of histories about Churchill with Onoto?; Conway S? . I don´t remember any info about Japan. They used pens or brushes?

 

Now that's a good point - I can't remember the Axis countries being discussed on here before (may be I wasn't looking at the time). I would be interested to hear peoples thoughts/knowledge.

 

As far as I know Churchill used several pens (or apparently so several companies claim) including Onotos.

[Rosetta59]

  On 8/21/2012 at 9:45 AM, carlc said:

Actually Bacque used declassified KGB documents and German census data. He also makes a supposition of what the population 'should have been' to create the lost population - hardly scientific. He provides no absolute evidence - much of the work is based on subjective reports and data from his previous, discredited, book.

 

I dispute the patronising tone of your post to Parker 51 - unnecessary and based on one book (by an author widely recognised to have been very wrong in his first book).

 

The implication of your post seemed to be that it was a deliberate policy of the Western powers which there is no evidence for.

 

That robbery and death happened is not in dispute, the subtext is.

 

ETA: this is a pen forum and these 'off topic' discussions threaten the main point of the thread so if you wish to continue let's do it via PM?

 

Dear Carlc,

It is better to read the books instead of the reviews on Amazon...

At page 204 of his book, Bacque cites the sources: kgb, cssa, red army archive, the National Archives of the US at Washington, the National Archives of Canada at Ottawa, the Dokumentationsstelle at Bretzenheim (DE), the Library of Congress (USA) and the Hoover Institution Archive.

Then, this is a pen forum and these 'off topic' discussions threaten the main point of the thread so if you wish to continue let's do it via PM?

BYe bye from Italy

[Kaweco]

  On 8/21/2012 at 10:37 PM, zubipen said:

And what about the other side: Pelikans?; Montblanc; ......

Hello Zubipen, according to: Deutsche Soldaten, uniforms, equipment and personal items of the German soldier 1939 - 1945, German soldiers carried a Pelikan 100 or an Osmia or a Kaweco fountain pen and an ink pot. These had been normal, cheap and practical writing equipment. MB at this time was one among others, possibly a little bit more expensive. As today.

Other side:

I found this pen at a fleamarket in a German garrison town. The personal engraving sounds American, so I thought it could have been believing to an American soldier.

http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab1/Thomasnr/Sheldon.jpg

[zubipen]

  On 8/27/2012 at 11:18 AM, Kaweco said:

  On 8/21/2012 at 10:37 PM, zubipen said:

And what about the other side: Pelikans?; Montblanc; ......

Hello Zubipen, according to: Deutsche Soldaten, uniforms, equipment and personal items of the German soldier 1939 - 1945, German soldiers carried a Pelikan 100 or an Osmia or a Kaweco fountain pen and an ink pot. These had been normal, cheap and practical writing equipment. MB at this time was one among others, possibly a little bit more expensive. As today.

Other side:

I found this pen at a fleamarket in a German garrison town. The personal engraving sounds American, so I thought it could have been believing to an American soldier.

http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab1/Thomasnr/Sheldon.jpg

 

Thank you for the information, it is clear that those trademarks, Osmia, Pelikan 100 and Kaweco, were very practical ans high quality products. I suppose that in those days, a reliable writing instrument were very appreciated, as it was a way to communicate home. I suppose, some German officials used MB pens, of their property instead of those provided with the regular equipment.I am agree that in those days MB pens were, as today, high price products.

[carlc]

  On 8/27/2012 at 10:18 AM, Rosetta59 said:

  On 8/21/2012 at 9:45 AM, carlc said:

Actually Bacque used declassified KGB documents and German census data. He also makes a supposition of what the population 'should have been' to create the lost population - hardly scientific. He provides no absolute evidence - much of the work is based on subjective reports and data from his previous, discredited, book.

 

I dispute the patronising tone of your post to Parker 51 - unnecessary and based on one book (by an author widely recognised to have been very wrong in his first book).

 

The implication of your post seemed to be that it was a deliberate policy of the Western powers which there is no evidence for.

 

That robbery and death happened is not in dispute, the subtext is.

 

ETA: this is a pen forum and these 'off topic' discussions threaten the main point of the thread so if you wish to continue let's do it via PM?

 

Dear Carlc,

It is better to read the books instead of the reviews on Amazon...

At page 204 of his book, Bacque cites the sources: kgb, cssa, red army archive, the National Archives of the US at Washington, the National Archives of Canada at Ottawa, the Dokumentationsstelle at Bretzenheim (DE), the Library of Congress (USA) and the Hoover Institution Archive.

Then, this is a pen forum and these 'off topic' discussions threaten the main point of the thread so if you wish to continue let's do it via PM?

BYe bye from Italy

 

As you have decided to ignore my invitation to continue via PM and 'gone public' merely to repeat the invitation I shall do the the same.

 

I'll ignore the petty (and unfounded) jibe to point out that firstly you should read others posts properly before claiming their substantive content as your own (especially as you contradict your own post - number 30) and ignoring other points that do not suit your need. Secondly I suggest that you take a more critical view of what you read.

 

As your behaviour on the thread has been somewhat unpleasant I shall no longer take the time to respond to you.

 

I apologise to the others in the thread for the off topic discussion.