Learning Copperplate

[PenmanMatt]

So I've just started learning to use a Dip Pen. I picked up a few books, an oblique holder, and a bunch of nibs. At the moment I'm using Hunt Imperial (101) since they are the easiest to get. This is my very first attempt. Needless to say it looks grim...

 

 

I'm using Speedball Super Black India Ink, Hunt 101, and Strathmore smooth surface parchment paper.

 

Any tips are REALLY appreciated.

 

Cheers,

Matt

 

 

[Randal6393]

Tips:

 

1) Go to www.iampeth.com and look around the site for books, examples, and VIDEOS. The vids are how I learned Copperplate. Great material and well worth studying.

 

2) Try a few different inks. Get some gum arabica and add a bit to a small vial of ink to see what gum arabica does to make the ink perform better. Experimenting is the name of the game.

 

3) Try a variety of papers. John Neal Booksellers is a good place to shop for papers, inks, pens, holders, etc. Again, experiment to see what you like.

 

4) Concentrate on having fun. It's worthless unless you are having fun.

 

Enjoy,

[PenmanMatt]

I actually have an order on the way from John Neal Booksellers. Can't wait for it to get here! Thanks for the suggestions Randal.

[MusinkMan]

_{I don't think that India Ink is suitable for pointed pen work. Get an iron gall ink, or Higgins Eternal or something. I've never had any luck with India Ink in a pointed pen. And Gum Arabic will make a real mess if you add it to India Ink. LOL. Another really cool ink for pointed pen is walnut ink. You can get all of it at john neal's or Paper and Ink Arts. Paper...get good paper...get Clairefontaine or Rhodia or something like that. Do not use crappy paper or you will get discouraged in a hurry. :-) For nibs, I would go with a G nib at first. Either a Zebra G or a Nikko G. Both are nice and easy to use, and both will give you quite good results. Most all professional calligraphers use them because they are fast and easy and they give saleable results. They are much easier to use when you are first learning than the sharper more elastic nibs (such as the Leonardt Principal, Gillott 303, or that Hunt 101 you are using. As Randal said, you want it to be fun and not a frustrating experience.}

 

_{Good paper, compatible ink, and a nib that you can use comfortably and easily will really improve the enjoyment factor.}

 

_{Also, prep the nib if it is new or you will be frustrated from the get-go. All new nibs have some sort of weirdo coating on them from the factory; either a light film of oil or some kind of clear coat to protect the nib from rusting or degrading while it is on the shelf. This film is invisible, but it is there. You must remove it before you use the nib or it won't hold ink on the nib properly and the ink won't flow as you write. This will often result in an outburst that could land you in jail or possibly an asylum. It's plum pitiful.}

 

_{To prep the nib...get a cotton swab (Q-tip type thing), and put a little blob of toothpaste on it (not the gel toothpaste, but the opaque kind...Crest or something). Then use the Q-tip to rub all sides of the nib with the toothpaste...the mild abrasives in the toothpaste will clean off the oily film. You don't need to go crazy, just rub it briskly 6 or 8 times on each surface of the nib. Then dry it off on a soft towel (or I use my shirt tail, lol). Insert the nib into the flange and then lick the point of the nib...front and back (not kidding here). Now it is ready to dip into the ink pot. You will find that the nib will be coated with a nice even layer of ink when you dip it...if the nib wasn't properly prepared, it would be full of fish-eyes and voids rather than a nice coating of ink.}

 

_{You must lick the nib every time you are about to start a writing session, but you only have to do the toothpaste thing once. When your nib begins to wear out and get scratchy and
catches in the paper...throw it away and get a new one. You won't learn anything by fighting a worn nib.}

 

_{I hope that helps you a little.}

[Randal6393]

Thank you, Musink Man, I forgot that India ink doesn't do well with gum arabic. Yes, India ink is not my favorite for copperplate.

 

Personally, I prefer Old World Iron Gall ink from John Neal Bookseller. Crystal Walnut ink is wonderful as well.

 

For practice, I use Noodler's Black with a bit of gum arabic to make the hairlines pop out. Of course, I have a separate bottle of Black, clearly labeled "Do Not Use in a Fountain Pen". Many penman like sumi ink. There are even those who use ink sticks and grind their own.

 

The value of learning what works best for you can not be overstated. Write and have a good time with it.

 

Enjoy,

 

PS: Higgins Eternal is great for practice work. It really thickens the hairlines, in my experience. That's when gum arabic comes in handy.

Edited October 26, 2014 by Randal6393

[PenmanMatt]

My order from John Neal came in today! It was surprisingly fast too. What I got to experiment with:

 

• Practice Pad
• Higgins Eternal Ink
• Sumi Best Bottle Ink
• Liquid Gum Arabic
• Gillott 303 x5
• Gillott 404 x5
• Nikko G x5

I just played around with the ink straight out of the bottle with the G nib. What a difference! Obviously I have a ton of practice to do, but now I can actually see where I am making mistakes instead of issues with materials. From what I've seen the Sumi ink looks very promising.

 

I'll get around to posting some pictures today or tomorrow.

 

Thanks so much for your help so far guys.

[Jenifermarie]

I started learning a few months back and started off with Gillott 303 nibs which almost made me give up before I even got started. Then I got hold of some G nibs. Rhodia, Zebra or Nikko G Nibs and sumi ink are my staples, I use the super sized Rhodia 38 pad so when I get into the groove I dont run out of paper too quickly!

 

What books are you using? If you havent got it, check out Mastering Copperplate Calligraphy by Eleanor Winters. It was my bible for the first 6 weeks as it not only steps you through every stroke and letterform but it also shows you all the things that can be wrong which makes critiquing your own work much easier. I think I spent a week writing lower case m,n,u and w trying to get my curves to balance! It is well worth it when you realise the muscle memory is building and things start to fall into place.

[dhnz]

Just a note to say that India ink is just another name for a carbon-based ink (like Higgins Eternal), and it's fine to use gum arabic with it.

[larsenproject]

Watch that sumi ink. Sumi ink will eat away at a nib over time. I love its density, but it will eventually begin to strip the metal off of your nib. Even if you clean the nib very well: so long as it is on the metal, it is chewing away at it. That said: if you are not using it every day for hours at a time, you're probably fine.

 

Also, don't mix sumi ink with any other ink. The binding reacts strangely, and turns into a sticky, blobby mess.

 

Also, also, I have had absolutely no problem with Dr. Martin's Black Star India inks or Speedball inks in my pens. They are lovely black inks that flow beautifully from my brush and all of my dip pen nibs. I know folks swear by iron gall ink, but I have always found it too thin and watery looking, without much depth to the grays. (Personal preference!)

Edited November 8, 2014 by larsenproject

[larsenproject]

I smite thee, double post!

 

Also, example:

 

This stuff never bleeds. I've used it on newsprint and it hasn't bled. I can also use it on acetate and translucent vellum. These are post it pads.

Edited November 8, 2014 by larsenproject

[Lively]

I've also just started learning Copperplate in the last month, and I have a few questions about letterforms. I won't ask about the different r's as I've read that thread!

 

I've seen examples of ascenders with and without loops. The ones without are more often in examples labelled as English Roundhand rather than Copperplate. Do people consider the ascenders without loops to be an equally valid alternative to those with loops?

 

The letter y that I learnt at school started like the cursive u. Most of the Copperplate examples have it starting like the cursive v. Is this the only correct way to do a y in Copperplate script?

 

I had never seen a letter q where the tail curved back in to meet the stem until learning Copperplate, although after some Googling I see this is how the cursive q is taught in the USA. Is the q where the tail loops straight up without meeting the stem okay too?

 

I have a copy of George Bickham's Penmanship Made Easy. It seems to suggest that men learn Round Hand and that women (ladies) learn Italian Hand. The main differences I can see between these two styles are that the down strokes in Italian Hand are not heavy and the ascenders are slightly more inclined to be looped than in Round Hand. Is my untrained eye missing some other distinction?

[PenmanMatt]

I realize that it's been a while since I posted, but I was caught up with personal issues for a few months and had to put this on the backburner. Thankfully that's all sorted out and I'm ready to go! I'll just continue to update this thread rather than create a new one.

 

I picked up 'Mastering Copperplate Calligraphy' by Eleanor Winters. After reading through the first section of that and doing a bit of research, I decided to go for a decent haul from JNB:

• Thick Century Oblique Penholder (Feels so much more comfortable to use than the plastic one)
• Gillott 303 Nibs (Haven't been able to make this guy work for me)
• Gillott 404 Nibs (What I'm currently using)
• Nikko G Nibs (I like these, but I enjoy the 404's better so far)
• JNB Graph Pad
• Best Bottle Sumi Ink
• Higgins Eternal Ink

I'm still not very good, but holy (bleep) using this stuff makes a world of difference. I am actually enjoying writing with them, and I know how great the learning experience is going to be. And to be honest, calligraphy supplies are a lot cheaper than most other hobbies, which is a nice plus.

 

Here's my workstation. I draw a lot of logos by hand for my business, so I just added my calligraphy supplies to that area:

 

And here are a few of the things from JNB:

 

Here's my practice session for today:

 

I've got a long way to go, but I'm very excited.

 

Cheers,

PenmanMatt

Edited March 7, 2015 by PenmanMatt

[jasonchickerson]

  On 3/7/2015 at 5:10 AM, PenmanMatt said:

I realize that it's been a while since I posted, but I was caught up with personal issues for a few months and had to put this on the backburner. Thankfully that's all sorted out and I'm ready to go! I'll just continue to update this thread rather than create a new one.

 

I picked up 'Mastering Copperplate Calligraphy' by Eleanor Winters. After reading through the first section of that and doing a bit of research, I decided to go for a decent haul from JNB:

• Thick Century Oblique Penholder (Feels so much more comfortable to use than the plastic one)
• Gillott 303 Nibs (Haven't been able to make this guy work for me)
• Gillott 404 Nibs (What I'm currently using)
• Nikko G Nibs (I like these, but I enjoy the 404's better so far)
• JNB Graph Pad
• Best Bottle Sumi Ink
• Higgins Eternal Ink

I'm still not very good, but holy (bleep) using this stuff makes a world of difference. I am actually enjoying writing with them, and I know how great the learning experience is going to be. And to be honest, calligraphy supplies are a lot cheaper than most other hobbies, which is a nice plus.

 

Here's my workstation. I draw a lot of logos by hand for my business, so I just added my calligraphy supplies to that area:

 

And here are a few of the things from JNB:

 

Here's my practice session for today:

 

I've got a long way to go, but I'm very excited.

 

Cheers,

PenmanMatt

It's lookin great, Matt. Keep us updated on your progress.

 

The only advice I can give at this point is that it's all about the ink/paper/nib combination. If you are frustrated in your practice and not making progress, try a new nib, well prepared. I use alcohol and the potato trick, but I'm still not getting a good coat on the nib as described here. If you are still frustrated, great paper like OCM pure cotton is with the price, and you can practice on both sides. IMO, vellum (Clairfontaine and Rhodia) are not best for pointed pen. While the smooth surface is nice for upstrokes, a more absorbent paper takes a lot of ink better and will help you master that light touch. For ink, I find Parker Quinn black to be better than Higgins eternal and far easier to clean, etc.

 

Good luck.

[TXKat]

Okay, here is an odd question, I purchased a big bunch of dip pen nibs on "the bay" and in the grouping was a box of Hunt 102 round points and 5 handles, yet none look to hold the smaller nibs! Is this good for Copperplate and if so, is there a specific handle or do some of the older wooden handles work with these? There were also some weird looking nibs like the tin man's hat and some that looked flat and like a flat handle was needed. If I can upload photos, I will.

 

Interesting treasures, but not sure of their use. Some of the nibs say drawletter and map.