Hooded Waterman - Made In Italy

[Gump]

Good evening,

 

I spied this interesting looking vintage unit on the famous auction site last week and it arrived today.  Based on the limited information I could find online prior to purchasing, the pen is a c/c, using the proprietary c/f cart or converter. The only markings on the pen are on the clip where it is stamped Waterman's, and on the barrel where a Made in Italy imprint lies.

 

I understand the hood is not an integral part of the nib unit, as is the case with the famous P51, and although I have not attempted to remove the hood there does appear to be a significant gap between the nib and the hood.  Despite the presumed lack of the large collector, this pen was chock full of ink, which after a day of soaking and a few ultrasonic cycles seems to be cleared.

 

Now I just have to source a cf cart to refill.  I know converters are available for around $20, so that may be a better choice.  I'm hoping some of you Waterman experts can help me with additional information on this pen, I have yet to find one like it in my searches, specifically with the grip section.

 

 

http://i.imgur.com/9Eg22SH.jpg?2 http://i.imgur.com/XOp2WNu.jpg?1

[Ernst Bitterman]

Completely baffled. Baaa-FULLED. I await informed opinions with vast interest.

[RMN]

I know about Italian overlays, but Italian production of Waterman bodies???

 

D.ick

[Gump]

These two threads are really all I can find online about this pen:

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/72918-what-the-dickens-is-this-pen/

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/264816-max-davis-site/

Most of the links and images are no longer functional, but I was able to find this on Richard Binders Site:

This past Thursday, a neat black fountain pen arrived at my door, courtesy of someone who wanted my money more than he wanted the pen. I don’t suppose this scenario is unusual, given that the person in question was offering the pen to the highest bidder on eBay. The pen, on the other hand, is decidedly unusual, and I haven’t a clue what it is.

No, that’s not entirely true. I do know that the pen is branded WATERMANS on its clip and that its barrel bears the legend MADE IN ITALY. Overall size is similar to that of an Aero-metric Parker “51” Slender. And perhaps the most telling clue is that the pen uses C/F cartridges (or a Lady converter, which also fits the C/F as well as the Lady). The Italian provenance is the real stumper for me, as I’m not aware that Waterman made pens in Italy.

That’s enough gabble. Here’s the pen, fitted with a converter:

 

No, it’s not some sort of funky Parker “51”, but that “51”-style hooded nib really is interesting, isn’t it! Upon disassembling the pen, I found that the nib isn’t a real tubular nib. It’s an ordinary Bock steel nib, imprinted with the goat and everything, mated with an ordinary cartridge/converter-type hard rubber feed. The end of the feed is contoured to fit into the profile under the nib. Like the shell on a Parker “21” Mark I, this pen’s shell plays no part in the ink delivery system.

The body and cap are molded plastic, and they’re well engineered. The whole pen exhibits good design, even in the face of the furniture’s thin plating, which has already begun to wear off despite the fact that the pen was NOS when it arrived.

So, umm, what the dickens is this thing? When was it made? Does it have a model name?

 

http://blog.richardspens.com/PenBlog/Sweepings_from_the_Studio/Entries/2008/8/16_Lets_play_Stump_the_Experts.html

 

I have sent Richard an email to see if he would share whatever information he gathered on the pen, hopefully he will chime in.

Edited October 25, 2014 by Gump

[davisgt]

As I mentioned oh so many years ago in the thread that was listed above, I own one of these pens. Nifty little writer with a great hooded nib, although I haven't had it out of the pen case for a while. Never did find out the back story on this pen. Max Davis had 15 of them for sale at one point a few years ago. Don't know if he sold them or not. The pen takes a C/f cartridge rather than the regular Waterman cart. That's an interesting tidbit I discovered.

 

Todd

[AluPens]

It's called the Waterman Standard, produced by Waterman Jif (French subsidiary to Waterman) in the 1930's/40's.

[kirchh]

It's called the Waterman Standard

 

No.

 

It's a Vanguard.

 

 

produced by Waterman Jif (French subsidiary to Waterman)

 

It's made in Italy.

 

in the 1930's/40's.

 

No.

 

It's from the 1960's.

 

--Daniel

[Freddy]

Fascinatin'..ain't it....

 

Fred

[RMN]

 

No.

 

It's a Vanguard.

 

 

It's made in Italy.

 

 

No.

 

It's from the 1960's.

 

--Daniel

Thank you Daniel

 

Indeed, a search for the Vanguard turns up newspaper ad from 1967 with a pen portrayed that looks very much like this pen.

 

However what still amazes is the Italian source. Could you shine more light on that?

 

Were all Vanguards Italian made? Were they made in several places? Did Waterman have a factory in Italy, or were these pens made as a sort of OEM, so made for Waterman by an Italian company, and if so which? Did this company make more pens for them?

 

 

D.ick

[kirchh]

Thank you Daniel

 

Indeed, a search for the Vanguard turns up newspaper ad from 1967 with a pen portrayed that looks very much like this pen.

 

However what still amazes is the Italian source. Could you shine more light on that?

 

Were all Vanguards Italian made? Were they made in several places? Did Waterman have a factory in Italy, or were these pens made as a sort of OEM, so made for Waterman by an Italian company, and if so which? Did this company make more pens for them?

 

 

D.ick

 

Beats me. Interesting that multiple Canadian ads are found -- strange connection, or maybe not.

 

Here's a nice example:

 

http://www.vintagewatermanpens.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/w4278.jpg

(From VintageWatermanPens.com)

 

--Daniel