Testing Procedures At Your Retailer

[arran]

Hi all

 

As I already a vast collection of mainly new pens, which are bought at a respected retailer in my neighbourhood with very good service.

But what bothers me is how a retailer deals with testing pens in the shop itself

Let me give an example

You make a reservation of e.g. A viscont HS with m nib

My personal testing consists in not just dipping the pen but also filling it up and make a writing test , of course with a demonstrator this can be hardly defended,

I have several pens , which were paid in the shop , coming home , and flow issues.Back to the shop and waiting half year to get it restored, if it is restored of course.

Last time , my retailer refused to get the pen filed up, because I had already the feeling that the nib was prone to skipping.

The answer was , that he refused because of the fact that a next potential buyer could refuse this pen , because of having been filled with ink.

Result , the pen was not bought , a pen of 2600,hm😓

I just want to keep a good relationship with my retailer.

What are your testing procedures ?

What can you afford.

I am just getting sick of having to many pens in repair that take too much time, which is not the fault of the retailer.

What can we affor at a retailer?

 

Thanks for comments

[BrandonA]

Never needed to test a pen. I would not want to pay full retail for a used pen. I expect to break the sell on the packaging when I buy. If you buy quality then the pen should work, if it doesn't then hope the pen comes with a nib exchange service or the brand is known for good maintenance

[Notgatherox]

I'm not too sure about your retailer, but for me, when I go down to the retailer to test a pen, they don't allow filling up the pen to try - because that will make the pen used.

 

They do allow dip tests though, and that's when I write a few words, mostly "The quick brown fox jumps over a lazy dog".

 

Prior to going down to the retailer, I would have done my research. So when I go down to the retailer I know what I want to get (for example, the Pelikan M200 demo). So I just go down, tell my retailer the nib size I want, test the pen (or rather the nib) and if all's good (no skipping whatnot), I pay up. Then I'll spend some time catching up with the boss.

 

 

~Epic

[GregWrites]

What can we learn about a pen by dipping the nib and writing? Putting in a cartridge will test the full end-to-end ink flow. So many post-purchase problems seem to be ink flow related.

 

[Sandy1]

Hi,

 

I agree that ink flow can only be evaluated by using the entire ink path from a properly charged pen.

 

My method is to go when the shop is not so busy, bring along some testing ink, such as Lamy Blue, and some A4 sheets of 90gsm copy/print paper. If I find the nib is smooth from a dip test, the nib slit is aligned with the centre of the feed, there is a reasonable gap between the tines, and the pen is in otherwise good shape, I'll pay for the pen. Then in front of the shop staff, I'll charge the pen with ink, then go about evaluating the feed/flow on the sampling paper.

(A continuous line in a rectangular 'spiral' on the A4 will reveal unevenness in flow in a given direction, and just might reveal any feed starvation, but that often occurs only after several pages.)

 

__Edit to add: There is quite a difference between checking the evenness of flow, and getting the desired flow (wet - dry.) If a pen is so wet that the line is plump/wooly or so dry that the line width is less than the native nib width /sketchy, that would be a reason to decline accepting the pen. It is up to the purchaser to do any post-purchase tuning / tine teasing needed to make a pen wet or dry according to their preference. Indeed, purchasing from a Vendor who will adjust flow rate in advance of sale is the only solution to achieve a bespoke degree of wetness.

 

If there's a problem, offering the shop staff to give it a go can also help, and doing so gets them to buy-in to the problem, but do watch for those who would use excessive pressure to give misleading results.

 

I just pleasantly ask for a refund or replacement [if available] on the spot - I won't leave the shop without either. As they value my custom, I've not had a problem achieving that goal. Having them call the local Distributor so I may speak to them in person immediately is another means of problem resolution, which I've used but once.

 

An obvious shortcoming of that method is that the pen is not cleansed of any manufacturing oil/residue prior to sampling. And often a pen can slightly 'break-in' from being wet with ink and the micro-shifting of components that come from use.

 

Bye,

S1

Edited October 12, 2014 by Sandy1

[GregWrites]

Hi Sandy1 (love the Endless Summer image),

 

I live in south east Florida, USA (Miami, Boca Raton, Palm Beach, etc.), and there aren't any real pen shops with much selection ... just occasional stationery and card shops that carry a few fountain pens.

 

I like your over-the-counter approach, and was wondering if you would have any advice for a guy like me who has to buy from an online retailer (reputable, regular prices)?

 

If there are apparent hard start and skipping problems, how many steps can I take before I forfeit my practical ability to get a refund or exchange (nib dip test, consume one cartridge over five days, or a cart and a converter over 10 days, etc.).

 

Also ... what is a newcomer to do about nib sizes? An Asian Medium is closer to a European Fine, and there's a hugely popular Asian pen company that uses German nibs (TWSBI). It's unrealistic to think that a newcomer is going to know all this, and then be pleased when it's his tough luck that the Medium nib is really Fine, etc. That's a blind-sided risk.

 

Any practical suggestions for how a newcomer can take reasonable precautions to not get stuck with a hard starter/skipper, or the wrong sized nib.

 

Thank you.

[sail1942]

GouletPens has a feature called Nib Nook where you can see a comparison of many different nib sizes.

[Sandy1]

  On 10/13/2014 at 12:07 AM, GregWrites said:

Hi Sandy1 (love the Endless Summer image),

 

I live in south east Florida, USA (Miami, Boca Raton, Palm Beach, etc.), and there aren't any real pen shops with much selection ... just occasional stationery and card shops that carry a few fountain pens.

 

I like your over-the-counter approach, and was wondering if you would have any advice for a guy like me who has to buy from an online retailer (reputable, regular prices)?

 

If there are apparent hard start and skipping problems, how many steps can I take before I forfeit my practical ability to get a refund or exchange (nib dip test, consume one cartridge over five days, or a cart and a converter over 10 days, etc.).

 

Also ... what is a newcomer to do about nib sizes? An Asian Medium is closer to a European Fine, and there's a hugely popular Asian pen company that uses German nibs (TWSBI). It's unrealistic to think that a newcomer is going to know all this, and then be pleased when it's his tough luck that the Medium nib is really Fine, etc. That's a blind-sided risk.

 

Any practical suggestions for how a newcomer can take reasonable precautions to not get stuck with a hard starter/skipper, or the wrong sized nib.

 

Thank you.

 

Hi,

 

When dealing with a reputable non-local dealer, much relies on the policy of that dealer, so ask any questions about returns, their pre-sale testing of a pen, etc. before deciding on a Vendor - buyer beware. Sometimes the reply to a simple email query 'Do you write test the pens?' can indicate what sort of outfit you might be dealing with.

 

Also, I prefer to deal with a Vendor whose offerings have a strong showing of fountain pens and related stuff, such as papers & inks. I would be reluctant to deal with 'merchants' that are simply selling whatever happens to be in their inventory, which might include watches, mirrors or rope. (Although one of my favourite eB@y Sellers deals primarily in ye olde carpentry tools, his restored FPs are splendid.)

 

As mentioned above, shortcomings of my over-the-counter test are the lack of cleansing to remove oils and other residue, and the lack of a break-in period. Both of which I suggest doing before tinkering with the pen

 

First off use a loupe to check the nib tip to ensure the slit is very well centred; and that the tipping does not exhibit 'baby bottom'. Either of those seem reason enough to return the pen on the spot.

 

Run some samples, and check the alignment of the tines. If they're out of alignment and you're confident in doing so, ever so gently go about aligning the tines.

 

Use the pen with a benign [Washable] non-Black ink with a low dye-load on different papers for a week or less, even just for doodling when you're chatting on the phone or reading. Find the heart of the nib's sweet spot. Grasp the pen with a proper 'no baby bird paste' grip. Give the fill system & ink path some exercise: charge with ink at least once a day so the collector+feed are fully loaded; empty the pen of ink, then write it dry and recharge it with the same ink. … I reckon I've used far more Waterman Florida Blue and Pelikan Royal Blue for sampling than writing.

 

The Pinned Topic 'Five Bad Things That Happen With New Fountain Pens' and the Replies are a must-read: https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/187706-five-bad-things-that-happen-with-new-pens/?p=1895067

 

About five days after receiving the pen, it should be quite well broken-in and have settled down, so run another set of samples similar to those when the pen was first used. If problems remain, take photos / scans of the flawed samples and close-ups of nib+feed, then send them to the Vendor for their advice. Leave it to them to suggest adjusting the gap between the tines, nib flossing, adjusting the nib+feed set-up, honing with micro-mesh, etc. While such tasks are not profoundly difficult, they do require skill and knowledge, and if not done well can damage the pen - making it impossible to return to the Vendor.

 

Oh, problems such as poor start-up may not have to do with the pen, but the ink or the manner in which the pen is handled, such as leaving it uncapped when not in active use. Some pens do not have a good cap seal, so the nib can dry out when resting. (In my Ink Reviews, there are separate points for Start-Up and Nib Dry-Out.)

 

Nib width grades mean different things to different pen makers - there's no ISO or similar standards. In addition to the Goulet Pen Co. 'Nib Nook', Classic Pens has graciously compiled a table of tipping sizes for the pens they offer @ http://www.nibs.com/TippingSizespage.htm Be aware that due to the influences of the ink+paper combo and tine spread, tipping width does not translate 1:1 to width of the written line.

- Somewhat less graciously, my Ink Reviews have a NIB-ism image, intended to show nib width and wetness of the pens used in each IR. Those pen+nib combos are listed, which supports searching by keyword/s, and Esterbrook nibs are identified by number.

 

Bye,

S1

Edited October 13, 2014 by Sandy1

[Namru]

I bought an M800 from a B&M recently. Ordered it on the Wednesday, arrived on Friday. Small stationers can't be expected to keep thousands of pounds worth of stock in.

 

I consider the dip test to be like testing to see if wine is corked at a restaurant, I was even handed a loupe. But I left in the knowledge that if something wasn't right or I wanted a different nib size I would be accomodated. But the owner dealt in nothing but fine stationary, so this is the service I expected.

 

Still nothing on a Japanese fine stationer.

Edited October 13, 2014 by Namru

[inkeverywhere]

The pen retailer I deal with in Brisbane, Australia, allows me to dip test FPs I am considering, but I would opine filling one would be out of the question. I like to feel how the FP, I'm considering, is in hand as well as nib width on paper.

 

When considering a higher priced FP I always go through this routine. I buy lower priced FP online and take the risk under these circumstances.

 

For me nothing beats the ambience of my local pen retailer and this just adds to my enjoyment. It is the only place I shop where I keep encouraging the staff to serve other customers ahead of me.

 

 

Greg

[Yehenara]

Dip tests are good and all, but filling is definitely out of the question. If there's a problem with the pen, I'll take it back to the store.

[pgmrdan]

Is there a way to test the pen at the store after purchase so you don't have to make another round trip if there's a problem? Not the perfect solution but then the retailer knows that you didn't screw up the pen at home and can probably back you up better when he/she deals with the manufacturer.

[Sandy1]

  On 11/2/2014 at 12:05 PM, pgmrdan said:

Is there a way to test the pen at the store after purchase so you don't have to make another round trip if there's a problem? Not the perfect solution but then the retailer knows that you didn't screw up the pen at home and can probably back you up better when he/she deals with the manufacturer.

 

Hi,

 

Yes.

 

Post № 5 above outlines my method: Bring your own ink & paper, then after paying for the pen, charge it with ink and run your tests in the shop.

 

Bye,

S1