Miller Royal

[farmdogfan]

I just got this old danish Miller FP, it´s a vac filler, but there must be something missing, there are only the things shown in the pic, i would have thought there should be a spring or traces of an old sack but there is only a plastic rod and that´s it, the question is now, what parts are missing?

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

Regards Per.

Edited October 9, 2014 by farmdogfan

[69Boss302]

That pen looks fancy.

[farmdogfan]

It´s a very nice pen, that´s why i would like it to be able to fill again.

[Kuscer]

Yes, it's extremely nice, though I have never used a vac filler, so I'm afraid I can't help much...

Anyway, best of luck!

Virginia

[farmdogfan]

Thank you FP189.

 

Regards Per.

[Randal6393]

Seems the literature says that vac fillers use a sac that is compressed and released? So, no see no sac? Or are there other vac fillers that don't use a sac?

 

Best of luck,

[farmdogfan]

  On 10/9/2014 at 11:43 PM, Randal6393 said:

Seems the literature says that vac fillers use a sac that is compressed and released? So, no see no sac? Or are there other vac fillers that don't use a sac?

 

Best of luck,

I would have thought that it would a bit like the parker vac system, but there is no spring or traces of an old sac, it is a see through barrel.

 

I will just have to wait untill i find another and then see how it works.

[Dr.Grace]

At the very least you could convert it into an eyedropper by using a bit of rosin sealant at the blind cap and some silicone grease on the section threads. This would be a reversible thing, should you later find a way to fix the filler mechanism.

[Flounder]

Very interesting, I like a conundrum. I don't see a sac nipple for an open ended sac. How about the plastic rod? Is there a hole in the end for a diaphragm's pellet to fit? anywhere for an extension spring to slot through? O ring grooves in the barrel?

[farmdogfan]

Dr.grace# i did use it as a eyedropper for a short while, but i prefer to have it back in the original state.

 

Flounder# there is no sac nipple, and the plastic rod is without any holes, the threaded part at the end of the barrel looks af if it could be screwed out, i have tried with heat, but it does´nt move, i will give it another go and see what happens.

 

But i think the see-through barrel indicates that the plastic plunger would work as some sort of pump (maybe something a´la parker vacumatic).

 

There must be some part(s) missing, i just don´t know which.

[Flounder]

farmdogfan, I have been searching for information on this topic, it is an intriguing pen!

 

If you haven't already read this thread, it contains interesting information.

 

bigben seems to know a lot about these, and mentions a patent by a certain Johannes Iversen. That name brings up a few results on Espacenet,

 

This old Danish pdf has a listing on page 6, "Reg. 1934 Nr. 1096 fra Johannes Iversen, København, til Miller, Pen Co., København"

https://tidsskrift.dk/index.php/registreringstidende-varemaerker/article/download/63566/116601

 

 

http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=worldwide.espacenet.com&II=1&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19390110&CC=US&NR=2143601A&KC=A

 

http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=worldwide.espacenet.com&II=7&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19370419&CC=DK&NR=52984C&KC=C

 

http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=worldwide.espacenet.com&II=10&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19380430&CC=CH&NR=197313A&KC=A

 

 

[edit - how did i miss this? The first espace link has the drawings! Very interesting that no spring is required!]

 

[double edit - I wonder what was used as an "elastic membrane"?]

Edited October 14, 2014 by Flounder

[farmdogfan]

Hi Flounder, impressive research you have accomplished, i did see the first thread you are referring to, but i can´t see any of the patent drawings, do you have to be registered or something like that?

 

regards Per.

Edited October 14, 2014 by farmdogfan

[Flounder]

You don't need to register. Over on the left column, just click "original document".

 

You can switch between the drawings and description - it looks like that threaded boss can be unscrewed, and clamps the balloon or whatever was originally used in place. If you're having trouble with it, I've found metal epoxy very helpful for casting bespoke C rings:

 

http://flounders-mindthots.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/it-works-casting-c-ring-tool-for.html

 

The first espace link is in English, the others have the same drawings if you can speak Foreign.

[farmdogfan]

You have solved the puzzle! i am impressed, now i see how it works, maybe i can use a piece of a ordinary ink sac as "balloon".

 

When i get time i will give it a third go.

Thanks for the link, that could be a solution.

 

regards Per.

[Flounder]

I'm not sure if an ink sac would be stretchy enough not to tear after not many cycles. Then again, I'm not sure a balloon would be ink-tight. Hmmm!

 

Please keep us updated if you get the pen up and running, I was not aware of this stretch-style vacumatic design ( at first, I thought the filler would either be an accordion filler, or an O ring type vacumatic), and the pen itself is very good looking. I shall add it to my list of maybe-one-days, alongside a Bohemian Centropen.

[farmdogfan]

I tried to unscrew the threaded boss again, but it is rock solid and i am afraid to brake it, it has been soaked and it has been heated, but to no avail, i am afraid that it has been glued at some point, i did heat it enough that if shellac had been used it would have melted.

 

So i am not going to make more attempts at it, even if i got it out (theoretically) it would probably need some impossible to get sac.

 

To make a long story short, if i want to write with it it will be as an eyedropper.

 

But i am very gratefull for your help in solving the puzzle.

 

Regards Per

Edited October 15, 2014 by farmdogfan

[Flounder]

I understand, better to play it safe. A pox on supergluers !!!

[lcoldfield]

The Dunn pen is a example of a sacless vac filler, and this Miller pen is essentially the same.

The solid plastic plunger will be found to slide through a cork seal in the end of the barrel.

If you push the plunger down air is expelled through the breather tube and ink channel.

If you pull it up again ink is sucked into the barrel through the ink channel.

If you push it down again some of the ink is lost, but the ink channel offers more resistance to ink flow than the breather tube offers to air flow. The result is that some ink stays in the pen. By repeating this cycle some 10 times the pen will fill to the top of the breather tube. This is just the same principle that the Vacumatic uses - variation of the barrel volume with the use of a breather tube. The Dunn pen is an improvement on this because the plunger is hollow so that a longer breather tube can be used and thereby the barrel can be filled completely.

Laurence

[Flounder]

Not according to the patent, though?

[lcoldfield]

There is nothing about this pen that is not covered by the Dunn patent (US patent 1359880, November 1920). This patent was used by Postal to develop their bulb filler and is perhaps the most influential pen patent of all time because all other vac filler patents (including those on Parker Vacumatic) are related to mechanical detail rather than physical principle.

 

My advice is to unscrew the barrel seal, make or buy a good (well lubricated) cork seal to fit pen and plunger and try it out.

 

The reason why this design (including the Dunn pen) was not more widely used was because cork seals are insufficiently reliable and in the absence of aything better, it made more sense to use a flexible rubber diaphragm to vary the pressure rather than a fixed rod. There are a few modern pens that use a non flexible diaphragm, but they incorporate an 'O' ring seal rather than cork, and are thereby much more reliable.

Laurence

 

PS So many pen patents should never have been approved because they are re packaging of old ideas, either by making a simple idea look complicated or by using different terminology.