Kung-Te Cheng - Noodler's

[amberleadavis]

Hmmm... this is from Goulet's. This may be where I read about the Ink Stones that he used.

 

4.5oz bottle of Noodler's Kung Te-Cheng fountain pen ink. This bottle has a built-in eyedropper. Comes with a free converted eyedropper Platinum Preppy fountain pen and eyedropper brush pen.

This ink is Noodler's attempt to replicate the color, depth, behavior, properties, and general characteristics of the first royal ink of ancient China. This is the STRONGEST of all vintage emperor/royal inks.

How does one find the color of the Emperor's ink - a color know to be the original royal color, a tinge of purple with deep blue hues, the color that later was also called "royal" in France (as well as Rome)? Though clothing for the Emperor stressed royal Mandarin Yellow and the French court stressed blue/white and purple, the original royal ink was indeed this ink color. The precious remnants of the original ink stones were just enough physical and documented information for the color and the characteristics of the inks, so that Noodler's Ink could offer a sample of the Emperor's Ink - as close a replica to that royal ink as ever offered.

The ink is specifically designed for fountain pen use, but is also used by artists, calligraphers and other craftspeople. Ink should be used with included pens (other writing tools may be used but there can be a clogging tendency).

Since this ink is unique and quite apart from all the other inks made, two free pens are enclosed to go with every bottle. Noodler's Ink has tested the ink with these pens extensively and believes that they will serve you well. We recommend that you use this ink only with the enclosed two pens.

A note on the label art and ink name from Noodler's Ink:

The ink used by the Emperor of China during the age whereby Confucius was most recognized for his greatness intrigued the ink maker of Noodler's Ink. The quotes: "The weakest ink is mightier than the strongest memory." and "The four precious necessities - pen, ink, paper, and ink stone" were also fascinating as they are attributed to Confucius.

What ink remnants and/or colors were on the ink stones of the Emperors of China? The preference was for a blue purple - a prime based purple as opposed to the more western violet/magenta and red/blue non-prime mixtures. The information has been limited and all the more so due to the distance of time and the difficulty in getting museums and collectors to cooperate in this quest. As a manner of extending gratitude and thanks for the assistance Noodler's Ink has received, the ink is named in honor of the 77th lineal descendent of Confucius, Mr. Kung Te-cheng.

[shudaizi]

Hmmm... this is from Goulet's. This may be where I read about the Ink Stones that he used.

 

4.5oz bottle of Noodler's Kung Te-Cheng fountain pen ink. This bottle has a built-in eyedropper. Comes with a free converted eyedropper Platinum Preppy fountain pen and eyedropper brush pen.

This ink is Noodler's attempt to replicate the color, depth, behavior, properties, and general characteristics of the first royal ink of ancient China. This is the STRONGEST of all vintage emperor/royal inks.

How does one find the color of the Emperor's ink - a color know to be the original royal color, a tinge of purple with deep blue hues, the color that later was also called "royal" in France (as well as Rome)? Though clothing for the Emperor stressed royal Mandarin Yellow and the French court stressed blue/white and purple, the original royal ink was indeed this ink color. The precious remnants of the original ink stones were just enough physical and documented information for the color and the characteristics of the inks, so that Noodler's Ink could offer a sample of the Emperor's Ink - as close a replica to that royal ink as ever offered.

The ink is specifically designed for fountain pen use, but is also used by artists, calligraphers and other craftspeople. Ink should be used with included pens (other writing tools may be used but there can be a clogging tendency).

Since this ink is unique and quite apart from all the other inks made, two free pens are enclosed to go with every bottle. Noodler's Ink has tested the ink with these pens extensively and believes that they will serve you well. We recommend that you use this ink only with the enclosed two pens.

A note on the label art and ink name from Noodler's Ink:

The ink used by the Emperor of China during the age whereby Confucius was most recognized for his greatness intrigued the ink maker of Noodler's Ink. The quotes: "The weakest ink is mightier than the strongest memory." and "The four precious necessities - pen, ink, paper, and ink stone" were also fascinating as they are attributed to Confucius.

What ink remnants and/or colors were on the ink stones of the Emperors of China? The preference was for a blue purple - a prime based purple as opposed to the more western violet/magenta and red/blue non-prime mixtures. The information has been limited and all the more so due to the distance of time and the difficulty in getting museums and collectors to cooperate in this quest. As a manner of extending gratitude and thanks for the assistance Noodler's Ink has received, the ink is named in honor of the 77th lineal descendent of Confucius, Mr. Kung Te-cheng.

 

 

Interesting to read. But leaves me with more questions than anything: which museums and collectors provided the inkstones and samples? (Early imperial inkstones are not something you run down to the corner antique store and buy -- so provenance would be very critical.) Ultimately, we have LOTS of examples of the ink emperors of the last dynasty used still extant: we can view them in the here and now. And the vast majority of imperial writings still extant are black or red. Obviously I've not seen even a tiny fraction of them all, so perhaps there were a lot of blue documents. I certainly can't say for sure. Or perhaps ink usage was different in the first millennium of the Chinese imperium. Virtually none of those documents still survive in the original -- we only have reprints. So, if Nathan really conducted scrapings off inkstones that were verified as being imperially used it is possible that this color is "the first royal ink". I'm always willing to be shown evidence that early emperors used blue frequently, but in the absence of it, I remain skeptically agnostic.

 

For what it's worth Mr. KUNG Te-cheng 孔德成 was an academic and symbolic figure in Taiwan. From 1956-64, he was director of the National Palace Museum -- which houses many important artifacts and documents (though the vast majority are from the Qing). (Kung has a decent Wikipedia entry.) So, assuming Nathan consulted or cooperated with him, there is a mark for scholarly integrity. :-)

Edited October 6, 2014 by shudaizi

[XiaoMG]

I too am curious about the sources, which is why I brought it up.

[Jared]

I have a love-hate relationship with this ink. I have intended to trade it many times, but it remains on my shelf.

[ENewton]

I really like this ink a lot, but I did have to devote one pen to it.

 

Do others tend to devote a pen to this ink?

[domzals1]

Do others tend to devote a pen to this ink?

 

Yep. I have Preppies dedicated to Liberty's Elysium and Baystate Blue.

[fiberdrunk]

 

Do others tend to devote a pen to this ink?

 

I was using the Preppy that came with it, but it clogged and ruined each one of those that I had it in (went through 3 or 4 Preppys before giving up on them). So now I use a purple Pilot Metropolitan for it and it's working well. If the Metropolitan ever gets clogged, it's easy to remove the nib off the feed for cleaning. Pilot nib feeds are able to handle the more permanent higher-maintenance inks.

Edited July 29, 2017 by fiberdrunk

[inkstainedruth]

Yes -- I have one of my Konrads as the "KTC-designated" pen. I can completely disassemble that pen for thorough cleaning if necessary (and by necessary I mean "relatively often"). I tried it in the ebonite Konrad one time, to see if that pen would work a little better than the resin one, but it didn't....

I have a love-hate relationship with Kung Te Cheng. I hate the way it clogs, and if I try diluting it with distilled water I get more purple and less of the deep indigo/blue violet. But the color is like nothing else I've ever seen in an ink (and believe me -- I keep trying). The permanence is exceptional (I've said more than once that I half-suspect that if you burned the paper, the ink would still hang, words perfectly formed and legible, in mid-air for a bit... ). Plus, it's one of the few inks I've found that works well on those plastic post-it flags (iron gall inks aren't UV resistant enough for long-term). In fact, I think the ONLY surface that it doesn't work well on are the date/contents places on ziplock freezer bags.

It's a problem child ink -- but oh, that color....

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[ENewton]

 

I was using the Preppy that came with it, but it clogged and ruined each one of those that I had it in (went through 3 or 4 Preppys before giving up on them). So now I use a purple Pilot Metropolitan for it and it's working well. If the Metropolitan ever gets clogged, it's easy to remove the nib off the feed for cleaning. Pilot nib feeds are able to handle the more permanent higher-maintenance inks.

 

Thank you, fiberdrunk. "Ruined" is a scary word. Maybe I'll try my sample in a Dollar pen.

[ENewton]

Yes -- I have one of my Konrads as the "KTC-designated" pen. I can completely disassemble that pen for thorough cleaning if necessary (and by necessary I mean "relatively often"). I tried it in the ebonite Konrad one time, to see if that pen would work a little better than the resin one, but it didn't....

I have a love-hate relationship with Kung Te Cheng. I hate the way it clogs, and if I try diluting it with distilled water I get more purple and less of the deep indigo/blue violet. But the color is like nothing else I've ever seen in an ink (and believe me -- I keep trying). The permanence is exceptional (I've said more than once that I half-suspect that if you burned the paper, the ink would still hang, words perfectly formed and legible, in mid-air for a bit... ). Plus, it's one of the few inks I've found that works well on those plastic post-it flags (iron gall inks aren't UV resistant enough for long-term). In fact, I think the ONLY surface that it doesn't work well on are the date/contents places on ziplock freezer bags.

It's a problem child ink -- but oh, that color....

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

 

Thank you, Ruth. I look forward to seeing this remarkable color.

[fiberdrunk]

 

Thank you, fiberdrunk. "Ruined" is a scary word. Maybe I'll try my sample in a Dollar pen.

 

Yes, definitely use it in a cheaper pen!

[fiberdrunk]

Yes -- I have one of my Konrads as the "KTC-designated" pen. I can completely disassemble that pen for thorough cleaning if necessary (and by necessary I mean "relatively often"). I tried it in the ebonite Konrad one time, to see if that pen would work a little better than the resin one, but it didn't....

I have a love-hate relationship with Kung Te Cheng. I hate the way it clogs, and if I try diluting it with distilled water I get more purple and less of the deep indigo/blue violet. But the color is like nothing else I've ever seen in an ink (and believe me -- I keep trying). The permanence is exceptional (I've said more than once that I half-suspect that if you burned the paper, the ink would still hang, words perfectly formed and legible, in mid-air for a bit... ). Plus, it's one of the few inks I've found that works well on those plastic post-it flags (iron gall inks aren't UV resistant enough for long-term). In fact, I think the ONLY surface that it doesn't work well on are the date/contents places on ziplock freezer bags.

It's a problem child ink -- but oh, that color....

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

 

So true about the permanence! I'm willing to put up with fussy inks for that level of permanence. I totally think it's worth it!

[Chrissy]

I have a love-hate relationship with this ink. I have intended to trade it many times, but it remains on my shelf.

 

I'm exactly the same with a bottle of Bay State Blue.

[FLZapped]

I've been using KTC for a while and it is a little fussy, but I have also found it will write where some inks won't.

 

As usual, proper maintenance of your pen is required for it not to be a problem. I only use it in converter pens, simply because it is easier to flush them completely out.

[ENewton]

I have now been using this ink for about a week in a Dollar pen and have experienced no behavior problems at all. The flow is wet, but not too wet, and I've experienced no hard starts. The steel nib on this very cheap pen is not being stained blue. It is too early to know whether there will be a stain on the barrel. Yesterday it was 106 degrees in San Francisco, and I took the pen outdoors with me, but it didn't burp, dry out, or cause any other inconvenience.

 

What I have noticed is that this ink shows its colors, literally, only on the better papers. On Tomoe River it is a glowing indigo (words I never thought I'd write) with purple undertones. On Rhodia it has color complexity and an elegant matte finish. On Midori MD it is well-behaved but not especially interesting--just Navy Blue. On printer paper, it is also just Navy Blue, loses its sharp edges, and bleeds through--although it might be more practical to use with a fine or extra-fine nib, as opposed to the medium I am using.

 

I might try diluting it also, because I'm a person who prefers more purple rather than less. However, I would not want to interfere with the flow, which in my experience so far leaves nothing to be desired.

[antichresis]

I've found that it works best on a pen with a simple feed. After trying it with a Jaipur, various Pilots (clogs in three days), I've come back to the Noodler's Charlie that it came with. It's been filled for about a month now with no hard-starting. The walls are certainly coated—the ink is not one of those that are very viscous and don't cling on converter/barrel walls—but in my experience it is only a film of ink that you can wipe off with tissue.

[Intensity]

I love the lighter lavender of the ink spash photo at the top. Then the rest of the photographs show it as a darker, more blue shade. I'd like an ink in the splash color.

 

Great review, as usual!

[ENewton]

I just finished my fill of this ink, and the barrel of the pen is stained. I understand, from an earlier post on this thread, that "a little ammonia" is effective for cleaning, but how much is a little, and how long should I leave it in the pen?

[IndigoBOB]

I tried out my sample of Kung Te-Cheng in a Charlie Pen I got from a more recent HoDarkness order and after success I just bought my first bottle, a 4.5 zipper with another Charlie Pen I'll keep as back up for it.

 

I love this ink and it makes me love the Charlie Pen I have it in because the combo is working great. The simple ebonite feed seems to work very well with it. I have other potential pens I think it could work well with, but I'm loving this Charlie-Kung Te-Cheng combo sitting in my pen stand between my Ranga Zayante and Franklin-Christoph Model 20 and getting the most use now .

 

I did have hard starts when using my Jinhao x750-Jowo combo, so it took finding the right pen.

 

I typically try and find the right ink to work with a pen I like, but with Kung Te-Cheng I was interested in finding the right pen to work with the ink I liked. It's that beautiful IMO and I love the fact that it's permanent.

 

It's a very unique ink. I've been looking for a color like this since I started using fountain pens, and in fact I've had a sample of it stored since that time, but due to its reputation I remained apprehensive to try it out and forgot about it. I'm glad I waited to use the sample because I would have maybe dismissed it if I didn't have my more recently acquired Charlie Pen to make it work well.

[FLZapped]

 

I was using the Preppy that came with it, but it clogged and ruined each one of those that I had it in (went through 3 or 4 Preppys before giving up on them). So now I use a purple Pilot Metropolitan for it and it's working well. If the Metropolitan ever gets clogged, it's easy to remove the nib off the feed for cleaning. Pilot nib feeds are able to handle the more permanent higher-maintenance inks.

You mean you could use that pen? For me, they lasted about two uses and the caps cracked and would no longer stay on.