Nakaya Soft Fine Vs Soft Medium Pics

[Finalist]

SF Pen Show 2014 was awesome. My main goal was to select a nib type for a Nakaya on order, so I sat down at the CFP Nakaya testing station and went to work.

The xxf is so nice. It's "scratchy" but the ink flow is good for something so fine. The xf is very comparable and I would have a very hard time telling he difference. The fine was a jump up in line thickness and this is where the ink begins to show more of it's true color. The Soft Fine was very comparable to the standard fine IMO. The medium is a very slight hair thicker than my TWSBI ef. The Soft Medium is awesome. More on that later. The Broad was where I started to really feel buttery smoothness. The BB was almost slick and poured ink onto paper. The music Nib was comparable to the BB. The double broad stub was smooth, but had less variation than I expected. The DB CI has the variation I expected. The Formal Italic is super elegant and super crisp and would take practice not to stab the paper. The Obliques were too hard for to use as the angles made it hard to get ink flowing and to keep a smooth feeling - not my fit, but they do produce nice variation if you prefer them. The Architects point was interestingly wet and would be a neat addition to a collection.

All of the testers are set to a 5 out of 10 for wetness, so that was a good comparison to learn.

 

So here's my question...

 

As shown in the pics the Soft Medium produces some nice variation. During quick writing it is very smooth and a very friendly daily user. If you add some pressure it produces a line right between a B and a BB and certain upstrokes approach an XF as the ink flows less. My clear favorite.

 

The Soft Fine compared more to a standard fine than anything with softness. I gave it a good push and it was too hard to get line variation beyond F or F+. It didn't even go to medium.

 

I asked CFP and they say most people are less afraid to push the Soft Medium, but I am familiar with flex and did give it a good push.

 

Maybe the Soft medium is more broken in?

 

Thoughts?

Edited August 26, 2014 by Finalist

[Finalist]

also, Here's a spencerian grind comparison. I found my Namiki Falcon Spencerian produces more flex and more easily flexes than the Nakaya nib with the Spencerian grind. Here's a pic.

 

 

Edited August 26, 2014 by Finalist

[Alex2014]

Maybe a customized M elastic will be better if you want some more variation. I have a soft M stub which has variations, but good results I obtained with a B stub slightly reground to 0.55.

Edited August 26, 2014 by Alex2014

[Finalist]

Maybe a customized M elastic will be better if you want some more variation. I have a soft M stub which has variations, but good results I obtained with a B stub slightly reground to 0.55.

 

Yes, or even an XF with added flex. But honestly I already have a Falcon Spencerian, so I'd like something different and the standard Soft Medium seems to be perfect. I literally wrote the first word with the soft medium and said that's the one! It will make such a good daily writer that can be used for meetings, notes, or calligraphy. My Falcon Spencerian is my favorite FP, but it is more of a sit-down-and-prepare-to-create-art type FP. The soft medium can handle real work or play.

 

I was just so surprised how much more the soft medium flexes than the soft fine.

[Alex2014]

.

I was just so surprised how much more the soft medium flexes than the soft fine.

Totally agree. I use my M and SM Nakaya's as daily writer. They feel very different. For signature or calligraphy I use the stubs however.

[tarheel1]

Man I hope I ordered the right nib for mine. I got a soft medium with extra flex added. I guess it is not the cuts like on the fa nib but thinning of the tines.

[Finalist]

I think a SM with added flex would be great.

I emailed CFP to ask about why I would find the SM to flex so much more and more easily than the SF and they replied that people generally feel more comfortable flexing the SM. However, I really did give the SF a good push and I feel I know how to do some flex writing and I really think the SF was noticeably stiffer than the SM. CFP also said Nakaya tunes all of their soft nibs to the same flex. Maybe the SM was just more broken in??

 

Here are some more pics. Notice how the SM looks in the word "independence". That was my daily, quick writing and the nib was very easy and a pleasure to use. Also, notice the word "Nakaya Soft Medium" in that same pic. That is my flexed writing with the SM - see how the lines really thin out to an xf at certain points and at other points it's a western xf and the flexed portions are about like a broad+. What a great, diverse, and easy to use nib the SM is!

 

The other pic show some of the other standard nib options. I have a few pages of testing and I wrote samples of all the option provided. I can post if anyone wants to see something specific.

 

 

 

one thing that is not showing in the above picture is how nice the xxf and xf are. While they do have feedback, they feel very good for xxf nibs and the 5/10 wetness is very nice. In person they lay down more vibrant ink flow than shown in my picture. However, once you get to medium you can really see the ink's shading and properties so much better.

Edited August 26, 2014 by Finalist

[Earthdawn]

Out of the 6 I find the Soft Fine w/added flex to be really smooth and has nice fine lines and flex easy and for obvious reasons smoother than the Spencerian. For daily use ... well almost daily use, it is a great writer that is still forgiving and does not snag the paper.

 

http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac10/thevaporcafe/0F7FF700-1E89-4574-BAE3-5AF6F0E74C55_zpsmql05lhl.jpg

[Finalist]

Out of the 6 I find the Soft Fine w/added flex to be really smooth and has nice fine lines and flex easy and for obvious reasons smoother than the Spencerian. For daily use ... well almost daily use, it is a great writer that is still forgiving and does not snag the paper.

 

http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac10/thevaporcafe/0F7FF700-1E89-4574-BAE3-5AF6F0E74C55_zpsmql05lhl.jpg

 

Very helpful picture. Thanks!

 

I find several things interesting based on your pic. Your soft fine with added flex has good flex, but it also has the "added flex" grind. I suspect if it didn't it would not flex nearly as much as the soft medium.

 

I know that I want a more usable FP with flex than what the Spencerian grind offers, so I do think the Soft Medium is the way to go. I also like the idea of ordering a soft medium and if I want I could probably grind the medium down to a fine fairly easily on my own. I'll have to think about adding the "added flex" feature. That sounds cool and I'll have to search for some sample pics of a Soft Medium with added flex.

[Finalist]

Earthdawn,

 

Is this your video?

 

I've watched it a half dozen times and now that I have actually used the Nakaya testers I have a new perspective. In the video you said you have a 7 of 10 for wetness. Does that also add line thickness as you move closer to a 10?

[Earthdawn]

Earthdawn,

 

Is this your video?

 

I've watched it a half dozen times and now that I have actually used the Nakaya testers I have a new perspective. In the video you said you have a 7 of 10 for wetness. Does that also add line thickness as you move closer to a 10?

 

Yes thats mine

 

Does the wetter the pen add thickness to the lines... yes... a lot? No. But it does change the line thickness more so when flexing it or giving it little flex as well. The more porous the paper your using will also make a line thicker as the ink absorbs. The wetness can also change the ability to get shading in thin lines ... though it allows for great shading when flexing it.

 

Good luck lol I know EXACTLY what your going through....

[Sketch and Doodle]

Out of the 6 I find the Soft Fine w/added flex to be really smooth and has nice fine lines and flex easy and for obvious reasons smoother than the Spencerian. For daily use ... well almost daily use, it is a great writer that is still forgiving and does not snag the paper.

 

http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac10/thevaporcafe/0F7FF700-1E89-4574-BAE3-5AF6F0E74C55_zpsmql05lhl.jpg

Thank you for posting this writing sample, Earthdawn.

 

My first question is...

I now have soft fine on the way from FPN member and want to add flex but nibs.com's usual 6 months turnaround time put me off sending.

Just wondering if Masuyame can do the same flex. I know he does and I've had him done it, but would it be the same or similar flex cut?

 

6 mo. is long time to wait.

 

 

My second question is...

Your Extra Broad stub, have you added flex to it? or is BB naturally flexy? I like the line variation.

I was looking at some vintage pens for this. Like Pelikan vintage pen with BB nib or MB 342G BB. These are much cheaper than Nakaya for sure.

 

What are your thoughts on this?

[Earthdawn]

Thank you for posting this writing sample, Earthdawn.

 

My first question is...

I now have soft fine on the way from FPN member and want to add flex but nibs.com's usual 6 months turnaround time put me off sending.

Just wondering if Masuyame can do the same flex. I know he does and I've had him done it, but would it be the same or similar flex cut?

 

6 mo. is long time to wait.

 

 

My second question is...

Your Extra Broad stub, have you added flex to it? or is BB naturally flexy? I like the line variation.

I was looking at some vintage pens for this. Like Pelikan vintage pen with BB nib or MB 342G BB. These are much cheaper than Nakaya for sure.

 

What are your thoughts on this?

 

1. Masuyama can certainly do flex. I have never had him do it. I have had him adjust a Visconti HS and have a Sailor EF he tuned to smooth perfection. His work is amazing BUT I have not experienced his flex work. So can he do the same flex? To know that someone who has a Nakaya with Masuyama flex and Mottishaw flex can answer.

I will say this... There is no one out there who works on Nakayas as much as Mottishaw. The man works on them all the time and has done so for years. He works every grind known as well as matching the ink flow to the grind and the customers request. Thats an equation that is hard to duplicate. All I am saying here to be clear is John works on them more tan anyone out there....

 

2. My BB has only been stubbed... a smooth stub with 7/10 ink flow was what I requested. It does have some give but it is not a bouncy nib like the soft medium or soft fine. The line variation comes from the stubbing of the nib. The way John cuts and smooths it though you can always flip the nib and write with it upside down for a finer line. It comes out more of a medium and yes it is smooth. Very very smooth and easy to write with this way even though at first it seems awkward and silly. The result is as natural and consistent a line as any nib I have used.

 

The summer is over and I believe John is back from vacation and shows for a little while and we are between holidays so you might want to call and ask. They are VERY friendly and helpful and honest. I would also find out if the person you bought it from got it from John. If so you should mention that and explain you wanted it adjusted to your style etc.

[Sketch and Doodle]

 

1. Masuyama can certainly do flex. I have never had him do it. I have had him adjust a Visconti HS and have a Sailor EF he tuned to smooth perfection. His work is amazing BUT I have not experienced his flex work. So can he do the same flex? To know that someone who has a Nakaya with Masuyama flex and Mottishaw flex can answer.

I will say this... There is no one out there who works on Nakayas as much as Mottishaw. The man works on them all the time and has done so for years. He works every grind known as well as matching the ink flow to the grind and the customers request. Thats an equation that is hard to duplicate. All I am saying here to be clear is John works on them more tan anyone out there....

 

2. My BB has only been stubbed... a smooth stub with 7/10 ink flow was what I requested. It does have some give but it is not a bouncy nib like the soft medium or soft fine. The line variation comes from the stubbing of the nib. The way John cuts and smooths it though you can always flip the nib and write with it upside down for a finer line. It comes out more of a medium and yes it is smooth. Very very smooth and easy to write with this way even though at first it seems awkward and silly. The result is as natural and consistent a line as any nib I have used.

 

The summer is over and I believe John is back from vacation and shows for a little while and we are between holidays so you might want to call and ask. They are VERY friendly and helpful and honest. I would also find out if the person you bought it from got it from John. If so you should mention that and explain you wanted it adjusted to your style etc.

Thank you for answering in depth.

Your BB stub looks flexy.

 

How's Visconti 23ct Palladium stub is like against Nakaya BB stub? Is visconti any good?

[Earthdawn]

Thank you for answering in depth.

Your BB stub looks flexy.

 

How's Visconti 23ct Palladium stub is like against Nakaya BB stub? Is visconti any good?

 

Visconti 23ct Palladium stub is amazingly smooth and you use such a light touch to write with it. Completely different nib than the Nakaya. It's all in the feedback from the nibs that separates them in terms of whats different. It too is a very wet writer, which is common with the brand.

 

It's something you need to try to understand. Theres really no way to verbally explain all the differences between them.

 

Ill leave on this note... I will NEVER sell my Visconti HS Bronze... never! On the same note I won't be selling my Nakayas either. There are plenty of pens I could part with and have, but those 2 are ones I just won't.

[sarahfar]

Yeah there is a lot of difference. First iridium, Visconti and most Europeans are cut off and I don't think they have any iridium. The variation is very good, but you hit it they are very different.

 

The Japanese stubs are from the factory different than John's.

 

Finally even when flex is added, it more like semi-flex and again honestly much different than vintage flex.

 

I think if someone is finicky they really have to touch and feel or talk a lot to John and then there may be some hit and miss. To those who like a lot of nibs and can live with the nature of custom stuff, then it is a little different. I like both companies, but you hit it, I don't know that you can easily compare these two. Maybe a little more Omas and Nakaya but even then, they are still dissimilar in some ways.

[Finalist]

Earthdawn,

 

I'm now leaning towards a Spencerian grind for my Nakaya. Based on your pics it's hard for me to see any difference between your Soft Fine with added flex and your Spencerian. How would you describe the differences besides the SF W/+flex is smoother than the Spencerian? They look to have the same thin line widths and fat line widths.

 

Thanks

[Earthdawn]

Earthdawn,

 

I'm now leaning towards a Spencerian grind for my Nakaya. Based on your pics it's hard for me to see any difference between your Soft Fine with added flex and your Spencerian. How would you describe the differences besides the SF W/+flex is smoother than the Spencerian? They look to have the same thin line widths and fat line widths.

 

Thanks

 

Well first off I don't know how to write in Spencerian. I got it because I needed to have it. i figured if I got that I would then force myself to take the time to learn it. My point in that statement is that the Spencerian and Soft/Fine with added flex look the same or very close because I do not have the ability to show what the Spencerian is capable of.

 

That Spencerian nib is one you should get when you know what you are doing. YES I overbought. The nib requires skill not just to write with it but to not damage it. If you snag the paper you can bend those tine with ease... trust me I know. I had to send mine back for an adjustment.

 

The Soft Fine w/added flex is a dream and easy to write with. It is far more forgiving and can be used with some care as a daily writer. It has very nice thin lines and can be flexed out to BB with ease.

 

My final thought is this. IF you know Spencerian then its a great nib to get. If you don't then save yourself some of the frustration and get the S/F w/added flex as you will use it a lot more. Of course I had heard this before and it did not stop me lol... so how about this suggestion. Get the S/F w/added flex first. Then the Spencerian. We all know there is no collection with just 1 Nakaya. They always grow!

Edited October 18, 2014 by Earthdawn

[Finalist]

Well answered! thanks!

 

I have a Falcon with Spencerian and it is by far my favorite pen. I'm getting to the point where it's the only pen I use for fun. The stubs don't get used and the others only get used for meetings. Sooo that brings me to the idea of a Spencerian for my future Nakaya too. It's such an expensive pen it will not be a daily carry/meeting/notes pen. It will be a handle with care type entertainment for me only pen.

[Apprenti]

 

Well first off I don't know how to write in Spencerian. I got it because I needed to have it. i figured if I got that I would then force myself to take the time to learn it. My point in that statement is that the Spencerian and Soft/Fine with added flex look the same or very close because I do not have the ability to show what the Spencerian is capable of.

 

That Spencerian nib is one you should get when you know what you are doing. YES I overbought. The nib requires skill not just to write with it but to not damage it. If you snag the paper you can bend those tine with ease... trust me I know. I had to send mine back for an adjustment.

 

The Soft Fine w/added flex is a dream and easy to write with. It is far more forgiving and can be used with some care as a daily writer. It has very nice thin lines and can be flexed out to BB with ease.

 

My final thought is this. IF you know Spencerian then its a great nib to get. If you don't then save yourself some of the frustration and get the S/F w/added flex as you will use it a lot more. Of course I had heard this before and it did not stop me lol... so how about this suggestion. Get the S/F w/added flex first. Then the Spencerian. We all know there is no collection with just 1 Nakaya. They always grow!

Interesting, because I actually don't find the spencerian nib that delicate! I suppose there must be variations in how Mr Mottishaw grinds them.

 

I have a soft-fine platinum (which is very similar to the nakaya soft fine) and a spencerian nakaya. The swells are comparable, but the nakaya can write much tinner WITH THE RIGHT INK (iron gall, for instance). Both using diamine ink? They're fairly similar, though I far prefer the feedback of the nakaya.

 

Another thing to bear in mind is that the nakaya has a smaller sweet spot. If you write with a low pen-angle (like me) then it's fairly smooth. If you hold the pen fairly upright then it's more liable to snag.

 

Nakayas rock!

Joe